Focus Fire Sniping

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Focus Fire Sniping

Postby eltrain728 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:32 am

Tim and I played a fantastic final game yesterday and we had this situation come up:

His centurionstar was midfield, hugging a building for cover. My Wraithknight jumps up the flank obscuring my vision from his whole unit except for a clear shot at Tigerius who was chilling in the back of the unit and his Chapter Master at the front of the unit who is also the closest model. His chapter master is on a bike (5+ jink) so I attempted to focus fire out of cover to only allocate wounds to Tigerius. (Thought he could still Look out sir of course). In the BRB (page 18/19 of the mini) it says:

If you chose to focus fire your opponent can only allocate wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse than the value stated (...this includes no cover save (pg19)).

The problem is that his chapter master has a 3++ from the shield eternal so he would never be utilizing his cover save. We agree that if the chapter master's best save is the 5+ cover save that this would be acceptable.

In the next section "Models with more than one save" it says that a model will always utilize his best save.


I have heard a bit of past discussion about this concerning a rune priest on a bike inside a unit of white scars bikes due to their +1 to jink save.


Thoughts?
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Re: Focus Fire Sniping

Postby eltrain728 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:42 am

Actually I thought about this some more and what would then stop me from just directly targeting the non chapter master models every time I fired at the unit when they weren't in cover?

Seems like dumb loophole if it exists but logically it makes sense. Shooter aims at something he can see [more] clearly.
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Re: Focus Fire Sniping

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:04 pm

No the better save does not matter. Yes you can focus fire at the model without a cover save. And yes the bikes give themselves a cover save so Tiggy would have had to make LOS rolls.

The problem with Bike masters leading Centurions is the enemy can focus fire at units out of cover and deny the bike masters from tanking wounds. Since their bikes give them a 5+ cover and the centurions don't have cover! the bike Masters would not be able to tank any wounds even if they are the closest model.

Someone better tell Tim or else he is in for a rude awakening next week. Though I don't think he has much that can hurt his second round opponents Nurgle Daemon star.
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Re: Focus Fire Sniping

Postby tg787 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:17 pm

I looked over this some more and I don't think that it works that why. You have to read the entire section on saving throws as a whole not just that section. The most important and mentioned rule is that models only ever get one saving throw and that is always his best against whatever is shooting at him. It entire section reads like this. There are 3 types of saving throws that a model can take. Armor, invulnerable and cover. It then gives several examples how you always take the best saving throw and mentions a few times when a guy takes his armor saving throw over cover and vice versus.

The only time that you can focus fire by the way the entire section reads is if the cover save is the best saving throw that the model would get. So for this to work I would need to be getting 2+ cover on the bike, the fact that he has jink doesn't mean that you can just pick bypass him.

If he didn't have the storm shield or a iron halo I would say for sure you can bypass it.

And if people really want to read into this rule and try to play it this way even though its not correct then I would point out that according to the rules they are trying to take advantage focus fire only works when a unit is "partially in cover". The book defines in cover as "Often you'll find enemy models are partially hidden or obscured by terrain, also known as being in cover". So yes a jink does give you a cover save but no it doesn't make you count as being in cover according to the rules.


Jink "A model with this special rule that has moved in its movement phase gains a 5+ cover save until the start of its next movement phase. If a model with this special rule moves flat out or turbo-boosts, it instead gets a 4+ cover save until the start of the next movement phase." So yes it gives you a cover save but no it doesn't make you count as being "in cover"


This is how I would play it without a official FAQ or TO ruling.


Fred what about Nicks list has you skerred? Btw I am only focusing on round 1.
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Re: Focus Fire Sniping

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:01 pm

Every major tourney in the country will rule against you Tim. Just to let you know. I read tons of bat reps from around the country and every one of them have situations where the focus fire is sniping all sorts of things. It's one of those small hidden rules you see at the top tables all the time. If I have time I will go look and link those bat reps for you to see.

The guys you will be up against play the cover sniping the way I interpret it. It will be hard to convince them otherwise when LVO, Nova, Feast of Blades, daBoyz GT, etc... All have played it that way.

Go on Dakka and post your interpretation in the You make the Call section. You might be surprised.

I think you are reading to much into a some rule.

Page 18

"If you choose to Focus Fire, choose a cover save value. This can be between 2+ and 6+. Your opponent can only allocate Wounds to models with a cover save equal to or worse than the value stated. Alternatively, you can declare Focus Fire against models with no cover save."

You have 2 Bike Masters attached to Centurions. I shoot them with 4 Lascannons and say I am going to focus fire on the targets with no cover save. I can even say I focus fire on 6+. Bingo the Bikes can't take any wounds since they have a 5+ cover save for moving. That's it. The focus fire rule doesn't say how you get those cover saves, you are adding that in to try and make it work for you. It won't work.

Frontline Gamings batreps focus fire all the time. The guy who won LVO was doing it a few weeks ago. I've seen it all over the place.

It doesn't matter that a guy has to use his best saving throw. The FF rule says you can't allocate a wound to that guy because he happens to have a cover save different than the rest of the unit. That's how it works.
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Re: Focus Fire Sniping

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:17 pm

Your round 1 opponent must be thinking who the hell brings 2 Stalkers. Those two alone will decimate his flying bugs. That should be an easy win just so long as you remember he will try to camp his troops on objectives and accrue points.

You can read about Nicks list here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... ge#6473301

Those Drones don't care about a lot of your most powerful attacks. The Centurions wound them on 6's. The bike masters can't instant kill them. The unit moves fast and has 27 wounds, not including any heralds that join it. The 3 Grinders pick out weak targets to get wounds up for Epidemius. In short order the Drone unit becomes str 5, toughness 6. They, or a Grinder, will get the 3++ from Grimoire when he really wants them to live.

You don't have many bodies to get the tally up and that's good, but on the other hand your heaviest hitters won't do much damage to him. IMO this is a bad matchup for you. But you never know with the terrain and the mission. You never know.
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Re: Focus Fire Sniping

Postby Lord Krungharr » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:22 pm

Neat, I haven't heard anyone using Plague Drones much at all. Those look cool too, time to make some! Too bad I sold Epidemius, seemed so worthless with only a 6" range there. Very limiting, especially with his slowness.
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