Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

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Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby BaronDeSade » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:57 am

Hello All,

I played Tim's Dwarf Rangers twice last night, and as he noted, he was able to overwhelm my Uruk-Hai and break me without being broken. His army consists of four warbands of Dwarf Rangers, stripped of all equipment but bows. Although the Uruk-Hai often dished out more damage than they received, it didn't matter, as the Dwarfs had the numbers to absorb the losses and I didn't, and in the Reconnoitre scenario, they simply ran past my lines where I did not have enough troops to stop them.

Meeting the threat of this bearded, filthy horde has sorely troubled me. Certainly, there are some strategies I could use in some scenarios to minimize the value of his numbers, like castle-ing up in a corner, where the unsupported Dwarfs would have to fight my pike supported Uruks, although then the question becomes my ability to defeat the Dwarfs in a shoot out, which is up in the air. But for a scenario like Reconnoitre, where the little beggars can just run past me, I have no answer except to get on-line and kill as many of them as possible.

Another thing that makes this so irksome to me is that I had planned on making my Isengard army a four-warband army by utilizing a lot of Orcs, but I couldn't make the numbers work, even with the leader of the fourth warband being a generic Orc captain. If you don't mind, I'd like to crunch some numbers:

Four warband leaders: The Uruk-Hai commanders are quite expensive, running about sixty points apiece. If I threw in an Orc Captain without a shield for the fourth warband, I would still end up paying 220 points in Heroes. That would leave me 380 points to divvy up amongst 48 troops, leaving 7.9 points per trooper to spend. That just isn't enough, because even assuming that half of my army was Orcs, as a ten point Uruk warrior and a six point Orc warrior still average out to a cost of eight points.

On the other hand, if I had two shieldless Orc Captains and two equipped Uruk-Hai Captains that would be only 200 points in Heroes, which would make my average trooper cost 8.3 points, which I could do, if my army were to be half Orcs and half Uruks, with perhaps a few Uruk-Hai Scout troopers thrown in there to save a few points for this or that.

The army would then look like:

2 Uruk Warbands, led by Uruks and crewed by Uruks
2 Orc Warbands, led by Orcs and crewed by Orcs

Because, obviously, no Uruk is going to take orders from a gitty little Orc! Remember the scene where Lurtz came out of the muck, and the first thing he did was choke an Orc to death?

How would this army do against the Dwarf horde? The Uruks would be scoring a lot more kills against the Dwarfs than the Dwarfs would against the Uruks (projected kills by heavy-armor-and-shield Uruks vs. kills by Dwarfs: +100%, since wounding on a 5+ is double the chance of wounding on a 6+) Otherwise, casualties would be even. The Dwarfs would use their superior fighting skill to win about 24% more combats against the Orcs (16% chance of winning on either a 6 for the Dwarfs or a 1 for the Orcs) and casualties would be even, even against D4 Orcs. Uruk Captains would be very powerful against the D5 Dwarfs, which is his whole army, while Dwarf Captains would be very powerful vs. scroggy D4 Orcs or Uruk Scouts, which would less than half of my army.

So, the army could be built, and it would have the barest sliver of an advantage over the Dwarfs. I wouldn't complain about that.

Cheers,

BdS
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Re: Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby Smeagol » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:07 pm

Keep in mind that I don't have full warbands. Two of them were maxed out and two were just shy of a full dozen plus hero. The trick for the dwarfs is to come out at an average of 8 points. My heroes come in at 240 points for the set. This leaves me with enough points for 45 eight point models. Since three dwarf rangers comes out to 24 points I managed to meet my 8 point average.

Forty-nine dwarfs and fifteen bows come to 360 points.

Your Isengard force has a similar problem. The issue is that for you to follow this same paradigm requires you to make two thirds of your force crappy orcs which just leaves you with fifteen armoured uruks. Dropping a couple of uruk captains down to orcs buys you more points to distribute into your uruks. I'm not sure how you are going to manage to get any elite units or crossbows if you try to go the numbers route. If you went with Uruk scouts you could manage it. I have that version of the force already painted and ready to play. Again it utilizes the 8 point average cost per troop model as my heroes come in at 240 points.
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Re: Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby BaronDeSade » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:29 pm

I can do it without going 2/3 Orcs.I can make this army:

1st Warband

Uruk-Hai Captain of sixty-point range
8 Uruk Warriors with Shields
4 Crossbows

Uruk-Scout Captain of sixty-point range
8 Uruk Scouts with Shields
4 Uruk Scouts with Orc Bows

Orc Captain with Shield
12 Worthless Orcs with something

Orc Captain with Shield
12 Worthless Orcs with something

Total points: 586
Total Models: 52

It can be done...

BdS
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Re: Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby Smeagol » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:38 pm

I'd use those fourteen extra points to upgrade troops. This force has better numbers but I'm nit sure it gives you want in a force.
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Re: Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby BaronDeSade » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:20 pm

Yeah, I could transform two Uruk Warriors into Berserkers, upgrade two Scouts into Warriors, and have two points left over.

This force is fine. It's nothing special and it would take a long time to paint up all of the extra Orcs. I bet my three-warband Easterlings could beat your Dwarfs in Recon, though!
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Re: Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby Smeagol » Sat Jul 21, 2012 3:14 pm

Maybe. :-)
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Re: Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby BaronDeSade » Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:50 pm

Sure they could. The Easterlings could advance 5" a turn and still fire at full effect, and their horsemen could skitter around the Dwarfs and leave them in the dust, crying into their beards.

I throw down the gauntlet!

BdS
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Re: Dwarf Spam vs. Isengard Spam

Postby Smeagol » Sat Jul 21, 2012 10:16 pm

It would be a tough fight, but I think you could still manage to win if you played well. :-P
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