Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

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Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:13 pm

It's looking like Eldar are the most powerful codex right now. Not sure how long it will last though.

Vibro cannons inflict automatic glancing hits on every model in a 36" line. No Line of sight needed. 3 batteries of vibrocannons means three 36" lines of auto glancing to vehicles ( and a bunch of str 6 hits to non vehicles). Even flyers can't escape the line of glancing hits. Eldar should be able to wreck almost every enemy vehicle by turn 3. How do you not keep 2-3 vehicle out of a 36" line? It can't happen. Each battery will easily grab multiple vehicles each turn. The Vibro cannons don't need to see to fire. They don't even pick a target. How do you stop that? All vehicles dead by turn 3 from three 150pt units.

Next Eldar excel at laying down huge amounts of fire into foot units. Warp spiders, dire avengers, even guardians will all get buffed with guide and the enemy will be hit with doom. This will force an obscene number of saves on the enemy foot units. Remember the Vibro cannons glanced all the vehicles to death already. Psychic Hoods don't stop buffs anymore so it will be very hard to stop Guide from going off.

IMO Eldar need a new book and fast to keep them from just destroying 6th edition
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby CmdrVimes » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:52 am

Add to that the Runes of Warding that virtually keep enemy psychers from casting spells because there is something likre a 40% ( Iam estimating) chance of perils with no saves. Necrons also are now buffed up since they can always shoot 24" and potentially get a lot of glances since all gauss weapons can glance. 4 hull points on Ghost Archs is wicked too, not to mention the number of shots they get when loaded with warriors. Orks, on the other hand, are nerfed. No additional initiative for furious charge, can only get out of vehicles if they move more than 6".
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:58 am

I understand the Eldar Vibro cannon shannigans is a little over blown. Yes I think they can destroy vehicles really fast, however the new Eldar book is what, a year away? That and whose going to shell out 25$ for each of the nine Vibro cannons to maximize your batteries. It's one of those things we will whisper about in the dark corners of the bunker, but will probably never see on the tabletop.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Turtle » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:53 am

orks are also buffed

you have to kill almost every mob to the man, since there are no fearless saves when you lose combat. overwatch is good for them since they didn't care about having a good bs to hit. For them it's just volume of fire.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby DaGrippster » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:10 pm

Fred I was thinking about an Eldar list very similar to that. The vibro cannons are very useful, but I do think we will be seeing a lot less tanks for them to hit.

I don't think that orks got nerfed, just that different builds will now be optimal. A very shooty ork army, say 3 squads of 15 lootas and 4 squads of shoota boyz will be very hard to kill. Throw some aegis defense lines and some allies to shore up any weaknesses and you are good to go. An assaulting/slugga boyz army got nerfed by the allocation rules-removing models from the front really hurts.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Turtle wrote:orks are also buffed

you have to kill almost every mob to the man, since there are no fearless saves when you lose combat. overwatch is good for them since they didn't care about having a good bs to hit. For them it's just volume of fire.


That's true. Every type of horde unit is buffed with the removal of fearless saves. This puts a premium on abilities that can take out hordes quickly. Cleansing Flame, massed twin-linked shooting (guided Eldar units), maybe the new death company furioso with talons who has 7 attacks on the charge and doesn't need to assault the closest unit anymore. Those units that can take out hordes quickly are few and far between. They will need to be maximized in order to have a chance against horde lists, especially horde Orks.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:27 pm

DaGrippster wrote:Fred I was thinking about an Eldar list very similar to that. The vibro cannons are very useful, but I do think we will be seeing a lot less tanks for them to hit.

I don't think that orks got nerfed, just that different builds will now be optimal. A very shooty ork army, say 3 squads of 15 lootas and 4 squads of shoota boyz will be very hard to kill. Throw some aegis defense lines and some allies to shore up any weaknesses and you are good to go. An assaulting/slugga boyz army got nerfed by the allocation rules-removing models from the front really hurts.



I agree. Everything in the new 6th edition books screams shooting. Units that excel at shooting, especially shooting with a high rate of fire as opposed to precision shooting, all have good buffs.

Cover saves have been reduced (though monstrous creatures can get them easier now.

No assaulting from reserve - this is huge for protecting your backfield. Only Ymgarls and Vanguard vets can do it now.

Overwatch let's high rate of fire units reduce the incoming threat of an assault and possibly stop it from happening. If the high rate of fire unit also has some HtH kick, like Orks or shoots terminators, it can make that unit almost immune to assaults.

I understand the designers thought vehicles would be needed to move units around the board quickly, however since we can now move and rapid fire to full effect, mobility on foot units has not been lost. IMo this is the big problem with 6th edition. My Footdar have mobility because they can move every turn and fire to full effect. Everyone has that same mobility now. Any unit which can shoot with a high rate of fire and still move 6" has enough mobility to get around the board. I am not really seeing a need for vehicles at all except as mobile LOS blockers. Since they can flat out in the shooting phase, they can cover a foot unit that just shot.

3 obliterators fire, chaos rhino then moves to block LOS to those obits, etc...

Right now the only vehicles I would interested in taking would be the cheapest LoS blockers I could find and possibly large blast weapons like Vindicators and Defilers. This is 4th edition all over again. Not bad for me because I still have those models in storage.

I can also see the resurgence of flying monstrous creatures. Right now that's flying hive tyrants and the Bloodthirster. Those guys can get to where they want and assault what they want with little repercussion until they get into assault.

I'm anxious to start trying things out.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby n00bzilla99 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:49 pm

Fred,

I disagree, this is not 4th edition all over again. Transports and vehicles are not death traps. They are easy to kill yes, but the effects on passengers are no different than the effects of 5th edition. Vehicles are easy to kill in CC and sure only need 3 or so glances to kill most vehicles, however, the sheer amount of firepower they can lay down, even on the move, thanks to Snap Fire is something to behold. Those couple extra heavy bolter hits can mean a lot when stacked up.

You can only flat out if you are a fast vehicle, so Rhinos can't move in the shooting phase, their top speed is 12", which is cruising speed and covered in the movement phase.

I used my regular 5th edition Guard list and had a pretty good day with it for my first game of 6th. Didn't lose as many vehicles as I had thought I would, and still even when I did, put out some SERIOUS fire power.

What I think is best about this edition, Overwatch. No longer do my guardsmen have to sit and watch as they get charged to death. I racked up a pretty nice kill count with Overwatch. Took down a charging Logan Grimnar, took out a couple of fenrisian wolves (That stopped a multi-charge) and a few space wolves, all in one game. D3 Templates on overwatch is sick, I loved dealing out 4D3 hits (Averaging 6-8) with my command squad, it was awesome.

This is the edition of the shooters in my opinion, because assault has lost some of it's punch.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:55 pm

I agree. Assault has lost some of its punch. I had Abaddon in combat with a bunch of scarabs and he got stuck there for 4 straight combat phases. I didn't roll a 1 for his daemon weapon, in fact I rolled pretty well each time. The scarabs had 3 spyders nearby who kept feeding Abadoon and keeping him stuck in assault.

Shooting has become more powerful just because assault has lost some of its power. I think when you throw in the new psychic powers you can increase the shooting and assault abilities of units dramatically. Tyranids especially, through liberal use of Biomancy, can neuter anything outside a vehicle and they can use shooting or assault to do it. Tervigons, through Biomancy, can become what a Carnifex dreams about in combat. Str 9, toughness 9, 10 attacks, it can be crazy. Don't give up on assault just yet, especially for the big bugs out there.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Turtle » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:30 am

shouldn't abaddon have been insta killing bases of scarabs left and right?
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby CmdrVimes » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:11 pm

Necrons can be wicked on vehicles in this Ed. My son was playing his against a guard army and took ou 5 vehicles on one shooting phase with just gause weapons
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Timber » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:04 am

Regarding the Eldar buffs, they've also gotten a nerf to one thing from what I can tell: The unkillable holo-field grav tanks. I'm putting together a list and just don't see spending 35 points each on them when glancing hits will wreck the tanks anyway.
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby Timber » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:15 pm

Has anyone played a game with a heavy bike or jetbike contingent? I was putting together my Saim Hann list and realized that almost every model will benefit from both Jink (skimmers and bikes/jetbikes) and Hammer of Wrath (bikes/jetbikes).
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Re: Are Eldar now the top army in the game?

Postby moonshadow13 » Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:27 pm

I actually have the 9 support platforms painted and ready to play. The best way to use them in 6th is to have a warlock with embolden and if need be a spear (for that oncoming Dreadnaught or ramming vehicle). He can be used for a higher BS skill too. Then you just have Eldrad with a full contengent of Wraithguard as a unit of troops and another Farseer on the other side. You can shell out the 3 guides and have enugh left over to fortune the main unit and any other unit close by. Thats the good part.

However, that being said if you get deep striked on by say a termiside squad or a flammer squad they can instant kill that entire unit without even trying. I play eldar and i have to admit i have looked at this set up to includes using a aegis defence line. Once someone gets close or drops in and shoots (like chaos daemons) those support platforms are squishy and die like reaping wheat. So all in all there is good and there is bad and like everything else it comes down to dice rolls in the end.
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