Adepticon Reflections----Good/Terrific/Constructive

AdeptiCon 2011 will be held April 1st - 3rd, 2011 at the Westin Lombard Yorktown Center in Lombard, IL. Visit the AdeptiCon website (www.adepticon.org) and start planning today!

Adepticon Reflections----Good/Terrific/Constructive

Postby AgeOfEgos » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:07 pm

Post this on Dakka---figured I would share here in case the organizers don't frequent the other board;



So, another year down----another year my gaming group and I made the trip to Adepticon. This year we attended the Team Tournament as Opposing Forces and had a great time.

Some personal highlights;

----Our (Mike Ash/AshAxe and I) Siege of Terra Won best Team Display---linkage http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... 57145.page
----Our team received a perfect/excellent sportsmanship score over all 4 rounds, only 6 (?) teams accomplished this----Really proud of this!
----Received 2nd in the Black Library award
----Dan Abnett, Nathan Long and some other Black Library guys came over to our table, commented on how awesome it looked---Abnett signed a Heresy book---Long a Gotrek novel. After telling him that I ran the Emperor/Custodes army on the table Abnett promptly signed the Horus Rising book "To Ryan--Your Emperor Must Die!" :D
----Got to meet/see many Dakka members again---Yak, Mann, GMM/Brandon, Lorek, and many more. All great guys!
----Mathieu Fontaine class was great! He's laid back, pretty funny---and I learned quite a bit.
----Got to bullshit with Dave Taylor again. Dude's a credit to our hobby---great guy and I always look forward to seeing him again.
----The swag bag!! Free Battleforces in each one? PP be my kind of crazy! Always impressed by the free loot from Adepticon---and each year they raise the bar.



Some constructive feedback;

----Sportsmanship score was non-sequential on the scoring sheet. The first two games of the TT I had to stop myself from circling the top one----when I meant to give them a perfect score. Probably better if it went from best----worst---top--bottom
----ATM was down (again). This is two years in a row---and I know it's the hotel, not the Con---but worth mentioning
----Forge World line was ill placed. I'm not complaining of a wait (As I was lucky enough to not have one)----but the line stretched around---bottled up the walk way to other vendors (and even blocked a few). Forge World almost needs a corner unto themselves if they come back.
----Availability of food early in the morning----since the con has the no outside food/drink policy---it would be cool if the hotel sold food very early---before the tournament begins. The lack of energy drinks kind of sucks too-----I'm so used to gaming with Monsters/energy drinks---it would be nice if they sold some variant. I don't think I'm in the minority here either---as I believe Monsters are nerd fuel.

----This last one is to all that attended, not the organizers----PICK UP YOUR DAMN TRASH!! Our team found a friggin banana peel stuck under a GW crater on a table and each time we traveled to a new one----someone had left their empty cups/beer there. Not to mention the printer center----where someone printed War/Peace then littered the floor with it. That's pretty damn embarrassing---whomever did those things---get some respect. It looks bad on the entire event when you do that shit.


Some general ass kissing;


Thursday night registration = awesome---keep it.

You guys ran another terrific event. Hank, Greg, Matt (and all the others that gave free time to run this)----you guys simply rock and make it a great gaming experience each year (going on 3 for me now). I know that there must be a tremendous amount of time given to this event---time away from kids/family---and I know our gaming group appreciates it. Two new guys came up with us this year----they couldn't believe how well ran it was and how great everything looked. Many thanks for making room for our table---and being quick to answer questions.


Another great Adepticon---and we'll definitely be looking forward to 2012. Thanks again!
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Postby tear of the angel » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:28 pm

Some more constructive feed back. Would be changing to points system on the third round mission of the team tournament. I don't believe the primary objective was worth enough. My game we had 2 objectives to the oppents 0, but they score 1 more kill point than us so they reiceved more points overall for that round. Just a suggestion.

People defintley need to pick up after themselves.
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:06 pm

I'd like to see a breakdown of Team Spirit for the 40k TT if possible. Is there a checklist? Is it subjective? I have no idea and would like to know.
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Postby Hero Jones » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:01 pm

I wish teams would get checked on their lists sooner or whatnot. My team wasn't in the running to win the tournament but our last opponent's were over on two of their lists. One by 3, not too bad. The other by 45, now that is unacceptable. My team made sure we were on par, others should be as well, as it makes for an unfair game.

Other than that, another fun year with new and old people. Keep it going guys!!!

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Postby Crumpsky » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:59 pm

I agree, somehow these lists should be checked for total points. Its a boring/time consuming task but it needs to be done. Teams found to be over the 1000 limit should get a dq. Its in the rules to be under 1000, if you cant be then the punishment should be harsh.

Other than that it was well run and very enjoyable! Thanks to all the people who ran the con!
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Postby The Black Knight » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:27 pm

Loved the schedule change of the 40k champs being on Friday. Only complaint about the champs is that the finals were decided by battle points? I thought that was the goal of the gladiator. For a champs event where sportsmanship, painting, etc. all go into the final score, they should also help decide the finals.... how do the best imperial, best heretical armies not make the top 16? I was far from the top 16, but was very excited for my buddy that he took third overall and was top imperial, but then couldn't comprehend why he didn't get a shot on sunday. Also, can someone explain the strength of schedule # that was on the sheet in the gaming hall?
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Postby Matthias » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:53 pm

All this was published well in advance. The Friday event was meant to be an all-inclusive event that awarded traditional prizes (Best Painted, Best Sportsmanship, Best Overall and all that). The 8 round format was meant to find the single undefeated player (need 8 rounds when you have between 128 and 256 players). This means that you simply had to be undefeated (or have a 3-0-1) record to qualify for Sunday to play for the battle-based awards. The event still addresses all play styles and we already have some good ideas about where to go next with this format.

The overall scores were a more or less an equally weighted combination of battle, sportsmanship and appearance plus the quiz. That is way it is called 'All-around Showing'.

Strength of Schedule is the combined records (in a numerical value) of all four opponents you played that day. We used 2 points for a win, 1 point for a draw and 0 points for a loss. For example, if you went W W L D over four rounds, then you would contribute 5 points to all four of your opponent's Strength of Schedules.
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Postby Rhysk » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:14 pm

Hero Jones wrote:I wish teams would get checked on their lists sooner or whatnot. My team wasn't in the running to win the tournament but our last opponent's were over on two of their lists. One by 3, not too bad. The other by 45, now that is unacceptable. My team made sure we were on par, others should be as well, as it makes for an unfair game.

Other than that, another fun year with new and old people. Keep it going guys!!!

HJ


Random spot checks of lists were conducted throughout the tournament to check lists for accuracy and points.

As for spot checking every list, assuming that you spend 4 minutes checking selections on a 1000 point list for validity, accuracy and cost; verifying 420 lists would take 1680 minutes (420 x 4) or in hours 28. Yes multiple people reduces the overall time, but it still remains an impossible task during the course of the tournament.

That stated, the following is taken directly from the Adepticon conduct policy for 2011 regarding cheating:

If the players cannot come to a resolution, then the matter must be brought to the attention of a Floor Judge DURING the game. At that point the Floor Judge(s) will weigh the evidence and take appropriate action...

Between the random spots checks, and players holding their opponents accountable to the conduct policy within the above defined procedures this type of situation can be mitigated quite effectively.
Last edited by Rhysk on Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Blackmoor » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:04 am

I guess this is going to be the feedback thread.

Once again guys it was a great event. The quality of the event is what keeps people coming back over and over again.


The problems were:
The championships seemed like they were really short on time. I had a small elite army and I normally finish my games really early, but my first game only went to turn #4, and a another only to turn #5.

2 Hours is just not enough time for some armies in the 1850-2000 point range. I talked to an ork player and they said that they did not play a game that ended normally. A game of 40k ends on a random dice roll for the turn and there should be enough time for it. There was a lot of time between games (I know that you have to enter 256 results) but if you have longer time for the rounds people will bring in their results during that time period anyways to get entered. It has come to a point that you can even do an earlier start time on Friday without much of an impact the way everything is set up now.


Scenario issue
I like the idea of the combo missions, but the table quarters needs to be changed. The reason why is that it is based on a 4th edition idea that does not translate into 5th edition. Armies now hava a lot of units that can contest table quarters and only a handful that can claim. That gives a huge advantage to armies that have cheap durable fast units/transports. You need to modify it so that either dedicated transports can't contest, or the person with the most VPs in the table quarter wins.
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Postby Huoshini » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:38 am

Overall weekend was fun as usual. I had my friends that I only see once a year from the fantasy side and the BFG side of things.

Weekends set-up: Thursday Night check-in was nice and quick.
We always make it in so we don't have to worry on friday. The new event schedule was great.
The placement for forge-world was terrible with the line clogging up one half of the dealer's area.
the prize support seemed extremely lack luster this year. There were 1500+ attendees, right? Why is it that the prize support across the major events wasn't up to par with past adepticons?

40k Championship: Jebus can we get a damn comp score?!
This will most likely be my last year at the 40k championship mostly due to the current state of the game. It's not adepticon's fault (Minus the comp score) but it's the way the game is being jacked up with the holy trinity of codices! Blood angels, space wolves and leafblower guard. Might as well just hold a tournament for those three alone and call them the winner. *rant switch off*
In all seriousness: If we are going to have a 3 color miniumum, can we enforce it? I saw so many underpainted armies it was ridiculous. Everyone should abide by the rules.
Comp score, yes a touchy subject, but I thought gladiator was supposed to be the knock down, drag out tournament of the weekend. If I wanted to go to adepticon to skull drag people across the pavement, I would have played on sunday gladiator. I had to play 4 rounds of 10 TH/SS termies. Just a bad match-up I know but it was ridiculous.


Fantasy tournament: I for one, welcome our new Overlord! Thank you for taking the torch and running the Fantasy Tournament this year and congratulations on getting married next week! I had 4 really fun games. 2 really close loses (Damn you zombie and A Bomb) and 2 wins. Again, comp score would be wonderfull thing and I know everyone will argue diffrently... I understand there hasn't much time for our new overlord but something diffrent than the book scenarios would ahve been great. But the biggest complaint is round 4 of the fantasy tournament. This is my worst case scenario as a tournament organizer. Taking the chance for a player to play his game without the chance to fight for it is ridiculous. I won't go any farther than that.

Sunday Killzone tournament: It's the first year that this game has been introduced so it gets some lee-way. The tabels were AMAZING! Thank you for all of the hard work that you guys put into making the tables. 4 man scenarios were amazingly fun! Player assigned tables are always a no-no. Keep all of the table assignments under your belt and keep better logistics next time. If I can mke it again next year, I look forward to this tournament

Thanks for the fun weekend, Adepticon staff and volunteers!
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Postby seahawk » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:11 am

This is my worst case scenario as a tournament organizer. Taking the chance for a player to play his game without the chance to fight for it is ridiculous.
Which one? The "how you use it" or the championships?
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Postby OwlandMoonGuy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 10:32 am

Thanks again to all the organizers, judges & volunteers of the event. Your continued growth is a testimony to your success. It’s a great time for hobbyists & competitors alike. I’ll certainly keep coming.

I participated in the Team event as part of Blood Angels: The Darkest Hour so here are some related comments for your consideration.

I enjoyed all the missions with the following exception: In the 4th scenario, the Marked for Death criteria can generate some mixed results. The trick is to merely leave the marked coalition in reserves with the hope for poor reserve rolls. Certain armies that are forced to deploy like Daemons & Pod armies can’t take advantage of the reserves rule in the same way. The winner is therefore rewarded for essentially not playing (i.e. keeping models out for the game) while the loser is potentially penalized because they are forced to play. If that mission is used again some balancing might be required, e.g. the Marked for Death army cannot place units in reserve even if their army specific rules require them to do so.

The only real criticism I have is that there seems to be an issue with accurately recoding scores between rounds and therefore compiling the results. After awards went out, there was the predictable bombardment of players who wanted to see the details. At different times people reported seeing a score sheet which was then pulled back due to errors that needed correcting. Some of the reports that got to me concerned errors that were rather extreme.

Hearsay aside, the task to assemble the net scores is daunting and I’m not saying otherwise. I’ve not seen any specific Adepticon rules about contesting scores but I’m also sure you get plenty of people coming back to change their game results after their submission.

Is 4 games just too much to fit into one day? Should you drop back to 3 and provide more time between rounds to double check results and resolve disputes?

Should you lock down results thereby eliminating disputes? I would think that after an opponent initialed the score sheet then they agree with the results. Therefore, even if they didn’t total things correctly that’s just tough. You signed off, the initialed scores stand.

Just suggestions so take them for what they’re worth. Again, great con and I look forward to seeing how things come together for next year.

Cheers, -OMG
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Postby Redbeard » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:41 am

Huoshini wrote:It's not adepticon's fault (Minus the comp score) but it's the way the game is being jacked up with the holy trinity of codices! Blood angels, space wolves and leafblower guard.


You know the final four included both Orks and Nids, right?
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Postby JonnyP » Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:41 am

Overall another great event. While not Adepticon Staff's fault....the ATM being out of order was a major problem. Maybe add that to the list of things the facilities mgr of the staff should check on before the event begins.
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Postby Huoshini » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:41 pm

seahawk wrote:
This is my worst case scenario as a tournament organizer. Taking the chance for a player to play his game without the chance to fight for it is ridiculous.
Which one? The "how you use it" or the championships?


The championship.

And no redbeard, I didn't know that. I was too busy getting pounded by thunder hammers to notice. :D
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