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New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:18 pm
by Lord Krungharr
Has anyone tried the new Screamers or Slaaneshi Chariots? If so, how did you use them and how'd they perform for you? I tried the Screamers once with little success of anything before getting Thunderfired to smitherenes, and it was a big unit of 9 mostly behind a Rhino.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:55 pm
by Redbeard
Screamers did okay in the game I used them. Flew over some gaunts before engaging some other nids in the game I used them. The chariot got shot to death before accomplishing anything.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:17 pm
by Norbu the Destroyer
I have not tried the new Slaaneshi chariots yet. I have used the new Screemers and they are REALLY good. Essentially you have Blood Crussher offensive stats (S5....AP2.....3 Attacks base) you give up durability being T4, and 5+ armour, but you make up for it with speed. All for a mere 25 points each.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 6:24 pm
by Lord Krungharr
Well given that reminder I will give them another shot in the next couple weekends! I think they'll work much better if I use them in an Allied detachment with my Chaos Marines. Then I can zip up with a cheap Icon to better position them, maybe with Bikers for extra speed.

With Screamers in my Daemons Primary detachment my first wave Icons so often scatter the wrong direction and too far too, so then I can't Slash attack when they Turboboost after they drop in. I have 9, so that's a fair amount of attacks. I really hope they still have cheap Icons in the new Chaos Space Marine Codex!

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:48 pm
by seahawk
Well, the new daemons don't get saves unless you use only the BRB version, but nobody plays by the rules with 'em anyway ;).

I've used both, I like their power boost. Screamers are nuts vs Terminators now.

I'm in the process of building three exalted seeker chariots though, so once they get into it I'll let you know. I'm suckered by awesome models! :D

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:20 pm
by Lord Krungharr
They get saves, they get 5+ invul saves because they have the Daemon special rule. And because they are part of the Daemons Codex, as all Codex updates are, they have Eternal Warrior too.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:42 am
by seahawk
Well, no.

"On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." (BRB, p.7)

The BRB has the "Daemon" special rule and its description.

Codex: Daemons has the "Daemon" special rule and its description, but it doesn't match the BRB version in any sense. Since they are both labelled "Daemon", and the Codex version is the 'correct' one, we use only that version. The pamphlet daemons have "-" as their save, so they don't get one at all because the Codex "Daemon" (the correct version) says so.

Most people choose to combine the two rules, which, while nice, isn't how the rules actually work. They are two separate and distinct rules. The BRB one provides Fear and 5+ save, while the Codex provides Fear, Fearless, Invulnerable! (save based on stat and EW), Daemonic Assault, and Daemonic Rivalry.

Since Fear is in both, that means they are not the same and are meant to be separate and distinct from each other. So, one either plays the new daemons as: deploy as normal, get a 5+ save, but can get instant-killed and aren't Fearless, or you play as: deep strike, EW, Fearless, but no saves.


It's the same reason that Soul Grinders, Plague Drones, and the other already established daemon machines not in the codex don't get a 5+ save either.

But, like I said, nobody plays by the rules with them and most of us assume that they are supposed to have some sort of save, so we just give 'em the 5+ for niceties sake until GW fixes their stupid mistakes.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:55 pm
by Lord Krungharr
That is not a rules conflict, it is additional rules for Daemon in the BRB. That is why everyone I've heard but you are saying they should not get a save.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:59 pm
by Lord Krungharr
I meant everyone but you are saying they do get the 5+ invul save. I expect they will further clarify next year when the new Daemons Codex comes out (hopefully it will come out).

Furthermore, they wouldn't come out with new models, trying to see products, if they were going to make the rules so much worse for them to make completely pointless, as that would not sell models. That's a fundamental axiom of sales for GW.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:04 pm
by Turtle
we've been over this seahawk, I've shown you in great detail how the codex and 6th edition rules interact. I will not do so again here, just go back and read the earlier thread.

Screamers have a 5+ invul, fear, and all 4 of the special rules from codex daemons period. Done.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:09 pm
by seahawk
Lemme make it simple.

There's a BRB "Daemon" and there's a Codex "Daemon". They have the same name but have different rules. Since they are in conflict because of this, the codex version takes precedence and so there are no saves to be had. Neither are an addition to the other one, they don't get mashed together, or whatever. The obvious reason is that both give Fear to the model that has it. If they were meant to get mashed together, one of the two shouldn't give Fear.

Maybe it's because only I and a few others that thoroughly read the rules realize how they interact. Just because everyone else assumes they get a 5+ save, that doesn't make it right. Remember, when one assumes something, they make an "ass" out of "u" and "me" :P.

Na, it does make the most sense that they should have a 4+ inv save, not even a 5+, because that is how Tzeentch works. I wholly support them getting a save at all, it's just that's not what the rules say right now. It's something GW really, really needs to address.

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:37 am
by Turtle
wrong

Re: New Screamers and Slaaneshi Units

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:11 am
by seahawk
fail