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6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:55 pm
by Generalissimo_Fred
The book is officially out. I picked up my copy first thing this morning and I spent a few hours reading. There is no way to get everything on the first read and it's hard to see big game changing shifts from a piece of paper. You need to get on the tabletop to find things out. When 5th came out I spent 2 weeks in Jeff Chua's basement learning 5th and Chua's never knew I was there!

It appears vehicles are more vulnerable. You can glance most vehicles 3 times and they are automatically destroyed. The trick is to glance them in the first place. Yes if you dedicate your army to shooting the rhino coming at your lines you will kill it. No question about that, however a wall of armor 12 or 13 at range, shooting back, is another matter. Vehicles can fire more weapons on the move this edition so they are doing more damage. Units with high rates of fire and str 6-7-8 will destroy armor 11-12 much easier now. Psycannons, hive guard, scatter later, warp spiders.

This edition looks very much like the shooting edition. Assaults have taken a few hard hits. You can not assault out of reserve which kills outflanking Genestealers. Ymgarls can still assault because their rules say so, but armies should have no fear of wolf scouts or snikrot coming on the back board edge and doing much of anything until they have to survive a turn of enemy shooting.

On top of that one of the biggest changes, and one that might just kill the rhino, is that no unit may assault after disembarking from a transports unless it's open topped or an assault vehicle. That means that even if a rhino sits still for a full turn, the marines on board can not disembark and assault anymore. Wow.

Terminators also get a big boost this edition because most CC weapons do not affect them. The power weapon is now ap3. I'm not sure if terminators will stick as a powerful unit because if people move to armies with high ROF to deter vehicles, those same high ROF units will take down terminators.

There are a bunch of new things still in there. The Necron Catacomb Command Barge isn't as effective anymore since it can only move 12" and attack. Certain flying MC, not CSM daemon princes, but codex daemon ones do, can sweep attack with a 24" move. You need 6's to hit them when they do this and then they can come down to assault something on the next turn. I expect not see a lot of flying MC's who can do this.

The Hydra IG tank can take down flyers real fast, however it can only ever hit a ground unit on a 6.

Rapid fire guns can double shoot at 12" and single shot at 24" even on the move.

The Thunderfire Cannon now has Toughness 7 and 2 wounds. The Techmarine can now bolster any piece of terrain and not just ruins, but it can't be one you bought.

Fearless wounds are gone from assaults. Man are scarabs powerful now.

My first reaction is to take all foot lists ( that includes bikes and jumpers/winged units) and gear them all up for shooting.

Re: 6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:56 pm
by Generalissimo_Fred
It would also appear that monstrous creatures get a cover save on area terrain again. Trygons in the woods get a 5++ from missiles.

Re: 6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:24 pm
by Lord Krungharr
I played my first 6th edition game Daemons vs. Necrons. It took like 5 hours to play a 2000pt game cuz we kept having to look up rules, but that was expected to some degree.

The biggest change I noticed was the wound allocation. Now the closest model in a unit being shot at takes saves if he can until it dies, then when it dies the next closest takes saves until it dies, and so on, until the 'wound pool' is empty. So taking all the upgrades, on a Bloodcrusher unit for example, is not necessarily worth it now. And I haven't reread it in depth, but we thought the Assault phase works the same way. Of course there are character precision hits and crap that can choose targets but that either didn't apply in this game, or we just ignored/forgot about it.
So the big lesson with that is positioning special dudes in units while moving (if they can't get into an assault range) can be very important, as you wouldn't want a special guy to have to take all the fire....I'm not sure how many Look Out, Sir saves can be done yet however.

Next game I'll try out one of my Chaos Flyers with Daemonic allies or something and see how that goes.
2000pt games are popular down here in Florida, so I can get more than usual chunks to my Force Org chart components.

3 assaulting Tomb Spiders wiped out my 4 Bloodcrushers + Herald in 2 rounds of combat, they're a brutal assault unit! Necron Players should always take them. I wish I would've had my Skulltaker for them instead of my regular Khorne Herald, that instaKillRending on a 4+ would've been heavenly against those.

Re: 6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:58 am
by Turtle
be careful with saying that the assault phase works basically the same way.

independent characters function way differently--they are just members of the squad now
look out sir and challenges affect it greatly
pile in's are far different
fearless saves are gone
how you get to combat is far different, (reserves, charge distance, fleet, jump packs, etc...)
close combat weapon ap's affect what dies and what gets saves
and most importantly the wound allocation for who gets killed off is very different

on a side note, I'm confused how 3 spiders killed 4 crushers and a herald, what happened there?

Re: 6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:44 am
by Lord Krungharr
I meant the saving allocation works the same as with shooting, aside from the Lookout Sir stuff, which I neglected, so you're right, that would've helped save the Herald and allowed other models in the back soak up some of the wounds. I definitely liked the new 2D6 charge range, as it can help the Crushers and other normal infantry units actually reach combat. The 3" pile in does limit things often, but with such few models not moving that far and already clumped together, it didn't hinder everyone getting into combat in the horror described below.

First the Crushers decided to kill all the Scarab bases, and they charged with S6 and Instakilled the whole damn lot of them...Hooray! Then they were flapping in the wind for the Necron turn.
The Spiders got to charge the Crushers there, and they got a wound on the front one with the Hammer of Wrath who already had a wound. Then the Crushers didn't hit very well and only Wound on 6s (I got 1 in), and 1 of them had to hit against the Triarch Stalker on the other side as he wasn't within 2" of a base to base Crusher on the Spider side (Triarchs didn't do any effective damage to the Crushers however). So the Spiders had 9 S6 attacks on the charge with AP2, they hit well and wounded well and I failed enough invuls to have the single Icon Crusher remaining for the next round of combat (I think the Instrument Crusher already had a wound from previous shooting). Then he whiffed and got Smash attacked and failed those invuls. Too bad Fateweaver wasn't there! Of course he usually just gets shot to hell and runs away, the bastard :P

And lastly, not having to allocate attacks either to the IC or regular guys kinda screws the ICs now. So it's recommendable that a unit with an IC or just C charges an enemy unit with its own C or IC and issues a challenge so they don't have to take on the whole dang unit. This will greatly help Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes, especially with no stupid Fearless saves anymore! HOORAY for that!

Re: 6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:55 am
by YeezyMozart
Are allied troops scoring units?

Can't find where it says they are not but people keep telling me there are not?

Re: 6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:59 pm
by Crumpsky
Alan, I think it depends on what level of alliance you have with the allied army. I think brothers in arms let you but the other 2 do not.

Re: 6th edition thoughts

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:16 pm
by Generalissimo_Fred
Desperate allies does not allow allies to be scoring or denial units, while the other two types of allies are ok. Pg 112.