Leaf Blower IG and the ways to beat them!

Do you know the best way to beat that unbeatable 40k army? Well post it here and share the knowledge.

Leaf Blower IG and the ways to beat them!

Postby langstraad » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:38 pm

Hello all. I have always been of the belief that if it is a legal list in 40k its ok. Over the years I have been violated by all kinds of evil stuff. 3rd edition Dark Eldar, 3rd edition Chaos Marines with Daemons, 3rd/4th edition Iron Warriors, 'Nidzilla to name a few. I remember the uproar over drop pod armies and how they were so uncool.

Now there is 'leaf blower IG' and 'leaf blower Blood Angels' and I am told there is also 'leaf blower Space Wolves'.

How are these lists being beaten? I find them so not fun that I want to take $500 buy the army that just smashes leaf blower and go smash leaf blowers!

Lets keep it clean and tell all of us who would like to beat such armies how to do it.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:48 pm

This list beat, no decimated, Leafblower IG at the European Championships. It even beat the inventor of the Leafblower, Darkwyn.

HQ1: Tervigon (160), Catalyst (15), Cluster Spines (0) 175

Elite 1 : 3 Hive Guards 150
Elite 2 : 3 Hive Guards 150
Elite 3 : 3 Hive Guards 150

Troop 1 : Tervigon (160), Catalyst (15), Cluster Spines (0) 175
Troop 2 : 10 Termagants ( 10*5 ) 50
Troop 3 : 20 Genestealers (20*14) 280
Troop 4 : 20 Genestealers (20*14) 280
Troop 5 : 20 Genestealers (20*14), toxin sacs ( 20*3) 340


Here is what the owner of this list said:

Hi there,
my name is Marcin Budziński. I designed this list. I played this list on ETC.

I will tell you some things about it:
1 – on ETC we have quite complex pairings system. To make it simple:
Team X – I will use Imperial Guard
Team Y – I will counter it with my Tyranids
Team X – Ok then I will choose table 2, you know that table with almost 0 terrain.

Thanks to that system IG army are really powerfull, because they can choose table without much terrain.

2 – I almost always start on the table. Reserves are to random. I start only in reserves if I can’t hide my Tervigons. I always deploy my genestealers so there is 2 inches beetwen them. First genestealer is deploy 11 inches from Tervigon, second 2 inches closer to Imperial Guard firebase, and next is even closer….

3 – I move my genestealers so my units give cover to my other units. Thanks to that I always have cover.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And i forgot to tell You that this list was tailored to fight with:
Imperial Guard
Tau
Space Marines (with up to 1 Land Rider - that vechicle is almost imposible to kill by my list, but can't harm my forces) Against 2 Land Riders the game is hard but not imposible
Blood Angles (like normal marines)
Space Wolves (+/- the same like others marines)
Dark Angels (the same army)
Dark Templars (another boring army with 3+ save, the same about Land Riders)
Necrons

Of course same lists like chaos dual lash will criple my forces, but they also should be able to win against most other Tyranids builds.


EDIT:
Gorgon said:

I saw that army too and was curious about it. It would have been very illuminating to see how he managed it in different missions, with first and second turn, against different opponents, etc. I can see it being very effective, but it definitely seems like an army that needs very different game plans depending on the situation.

I think that I like You.
You're right.
ETC results:
1 mission - Orcs, hordes of Orcs - Dawn of War, 5 objectives. Orc Player hide everything in first turn reserves, and i put my 40 genestealers on his table edge. He can't arrive from reserves. He lost. 20:0
2 mission - IG, mech - Pitched Battle, 2 objectives, i go first and win 18:2 ( i was able to hide 1 unit of hive guards)
3 mission - IG, mech - Spearhead, annihilation - i go first and win 15:5, hard battle, he was really incredible. ( i couldn't hide even 1 hive guard unit)
4 mission - IG, mech - Dawn of War, 2 objectives - i go first and win 19:1, because i made an error in writing results, should be 20:0 ( i didn't try hive guards)
5 mission - IG, leafblower - Darkwynn had first turn (and what's more important - i don't have even 1 terrain to hide my Tervigons), so i started in reserves 15:5 ( i could hide my hive guards)
6 mission - SW, 13 thunder cavalry and lord, 2 priests with jaws + 3 times grey knights with rhinos and 3 wolfguards and drop pod, SW started the game and i win 18:2 even after losing Tervigon in first turn (jaws of course)

Before the ETC i tested this army against IG something like 10 times. I alwyas go as second and i win all except:
dawn of war, i go as second - if the game would end in turn 5 or 6 then it would be a draw, if in 7 my win
spearhead, 5 objectives - if the game would end in turn 5-6 I would win, if in the 7 i would lost (made a stupid mistake)

i also fight against same(like 10) BA/SW mechs and those battles were easier.

DarthDiggler:
You're basicaly right except that i don't use checkerboard but more advanced version of it (lines of genesteaers). Thanks to that i don't have a problems with flamers, manticoras and so on.



That's a lot of info to digest.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:53 pm

Beyond Marcin's unique Bug list. I think the Super shooty IG, SW, and BA that you are refering to can have troubles with armies that can get into their lines. You need to get units into their lines of vehicles to cripple them. Dreads and MC's can use the immobilies/destroyed vehicle as cover as they rampage through the vehicles. Bigger units of assault marines/raptors can jump up and attack several vehicles at once in assault. Assault Termies coming out of LR's can also accomplish this. Vanguard Vet's with jump packs can also deep strike and assault units like vehicles that are bunched together and long fangs.

The trick against the super shooty lists is to NOT get into a shooting match with them. They generally give up the assault phase to dominate the shooting phase. You need to use the assault phase to beat them. (another reason I have always prefered attack bikes over land speeders because the bikescan engage the leafblower lists in the assault phase).
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:55 pm

At the 40k Championships, Tim S. took down Darkwynn's leafblower list in the final round with a balanced SM list. It was cool to see that happen.

Balance a good list I think, and you should be able to do well.
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Postby GregSwanson » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:10 pm

Lots and lots of bikes :D
That crazy fireman!
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Postby langstraad » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:22 pm

I figured there was a Tyranid list that could take it down.

I have noticed the vulnerability to assault. Although the counter is the quad flamer/plasma/melta squads in side that jump out and nuke stuff.

Great feedback and much appreciated.

I don't think changes to my lists will make the difference. It will be using the mission/terrain/setup to get the ball rolling.

It is good to hear a balanced sm list pulled out a win.
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Postby 00Enron » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:28 am

to be fair wasnt there some issues with Tim S in that final game?
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:20 am

00Enron wrote:to be fair wasnt there some issues with Tim S in that final game?


He had an extra missile launcher and removed it the first time he attempted to fire it and it was pointed out to him that he only paid for three, so not really.

The other "issues" were played correctly in my opinion. I digress however, his list still did very good against the leafblower by doing some critical things however:

1. Avoid deepstriking (although with most tourney's no longer using Allies, then it isn't such a big deal)
2. Avoid reserves as well
3. Hit them hard and tear apart their tanks as fast as possible
4. Get into CC with them and their tanks.
5. Multi-charges are your friend
6. Aim for the big guns first, the rest of the guard have pretty pathetic guns once the ordnance is gone.
7. Melta, Melta, Melta!
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Postby 00Enron » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:21 pm

@ABC

Im not mention anymore of this particular issue just becuase its the past and the situation has been resolved. Just to put it in perspective what one extra missle launcher over the course of the tournament can do:

Over the course of an 6 turn game average game:

6 extra missle launcher shots-->4 Hits 1 glance 1 penatrating vehicle damage result againt vehicles with armor 12 with a 33% of destroying one

60pts over durring the course of the game. (10pts per missle per time fired).

Over the course of 3 games

18 extra missle launcher shots-->11.88 hits 3 glaning hits and 3 against armor 12

180pts over durring the course of the entire day.

Now it wouldnt have been a big deal had this been addressed durring game 1. However Tim had been playing with the extra missle launcher for the first 2 games for sure and I dont know what turn in game 3 he was called out on it.

Im not saying that Tim isnt a good player or he intentionally cheated. He gave up his seat to vegas and I respect him for that. Im just saying to keep it in perspective on what the impact of one extra piece of wargear can have on a tournament, whether its a missle launcher or a melta-bomb
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Postby Turtle » Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:51 pm

you dont pay 10 points every time you fired it or else a normal missile launcher would cost 70 points, its more accurate to say a single shot from a missile launcher costs 1.402 points
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Postby 00Enron » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:04 pm

QFT

good breakdown!

+1 turtle
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:19 pm

Doesn't change my stance that a good balanced SM list can beat a Leafblower list.

Tim's overall tactics in the game helped him beat the list during the finals. Not the stupid 1 ML. Regardless, like I said, I digress.

The pointers I listed above are great for SM to take apart mech guard like this.
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