How should Daemons deal with tanks and skimmers?

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How should Daemons deal with tanks and skimmers?

Postby Lord Krungharr » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:21 am

Hello fellow 40kers! I just played in an AWC tournament and had a blast battling some finely skilled gamers with various armies. Thank you Tony, Mike, and Chris!
I had alot of trouble in Annihilation against the Eldar in the first game. Then in the third game I had trouble in breaking the corner-full of Imperial Guard armor, including 4 Chimeras, 3 Leman Russes, and a Manticore hiding in the back, not to mention the 2 Vendettas.
I have 2 Soul Grinders in my list, and a couple units of Horrors with Bolt of Change, GUO and Bloodthirster. That Eldar game left me floating in the middle of the table for two turns, then Outflanked both sides, so my lack of speed hurt me for sure. Probably should've gathered everything to one side off the bat. Anyone got ideas to deal with skimmer/jetbikes moving beyond my assault ranges so fast?
Then against the IG I had my Bloodthirster attempting to hop from tank to tank, but he just can't withstand the shooting between hops from an IG army, and can't engage units after killing tank. That game was for objectives, so it wasn't as imperative to kill stuff, but in other missions could be a major snaffu. The 'Thirster did the same thing to better effect against the Orks, but less giant guns and more city level terrain helped avoid being shot at between hops.
Skarbrand was recommended as an option as then I could re-roll to hits, although then opponents could as well. But then I sacrifice the speed and ignoring terrain of wings.
I also have considered 2 Heralds of Tzeentch on Chariots. 2 Multi wound jetbikes with Invul Sv., of course not as killy to vehicles even with Bolt of Change and Breath. They could stay back and zip up to take objectives.

Anyway, I'd be happy to discuss Daemons options and possibilities.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:30 am

If you are going with Skarbrand, then you'll need a bunch of Fiends to chase things down. At 1850pts I would stick with just Skarbrand as your Greater Daemon. Another way to go would be to throw in more bolts of change. Tzeentch Heralds on chariot with bolt are great so is a Daemon prince with bolt (he hits on 2's and won't usually die to 4 CCS meltaguns from the IG like a soulgrinder will).
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Postby Turtle » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:56 pm

the other theory to deal with tanks is to just plop down a hundred guys, bloodletters kill every tank in the game (except for a land raider, and walkers) daemonettes are the same way, and crushers can murder vehicles too. i find that your troops can handle tanks and after that you account for a land raider with either screamers, a greater daemon, or soul grinder
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Postby Lord Krungharr » Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:25 am

The pair of Heralds on Chariots with Bolt sound more and more appealing. I'd like to try them loaded up with Breath and Soul Devourer too, with Master of Sorcery. Then they can pester from 24" away or zip up and vaporize troops and power weapon with furious charge to clean up. At 150 points each they're not cheap but not super pricy either.
I thought the D.Prince added up to too much after wings, and seems like he would need wings or be too slow to engage anything else up close.

I will have to test play the re-rolling to-hits versus the shooty chariots. Equal points so it won't be hard to switch things around if one obviously sucks:)
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Postby Redbeard » Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:58 am

Lord Krungharr wrote:The pair of Heralds on Chariots with Bolt sound more and more appealing. I'd like to try them loaded up with Breath and Soul Devourer too, with Master of Sorcery.


You'll want to check your codex - you cannot take more than three gifts, so bolt, breath, soul devourer and master of sorcery isn't a valid loadout.

Soul devourer ends up being a bit of a waste, IMO. Sure, he's got furious charge, but after that, he's S3, WS 2. Once in combat, he's probably stuck there for a few turns until he dies, or someone else helps him, and in either case, he's not shooting, which is why you bought him.

Breath is tempting, but puts him in charge range of your opponent, which is, again, not where you want him.
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Postby Lord Krungharr » Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:36 pm

Darn, forgot about that gift limit. I guess I could take that 100 points for 2 Soul Devourers and Breaths to get another few guys in my Troops units.
Or another little Troops unit like 6 Bloodletters or 6 Plaguebearers with Noxious Touch. That might be good.
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Postby Chubs » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:34 pm

2 Full units of Fiends ... really. Scarry Brutal how nasty these guys can be vrs anyone on ground level. Cheap too.

If you are really having issues with AV, Try Deamon Princes vrs soul grinders. SG will get one shotted from melta guys, at least princes can hang in there. The fact that you have DP's deep strike, you could get away with not taking wings... that and the fields are wicked fast.

Blood thirster, like a prince, only more mobile. If your are going to take one, take two. More fun anyway. I also like hearlds of khorne on juggers/ Charriots. Give him fury and take out the flanks The idea is that you load up your opponnets with lots of units. It's not like demon have real issue with kill points (with no transports, multiple unit selections[IG plattons], or combat squads).

Mounted deamoneets are also pretty good point for point, but good luck finding the actual model. Also, they can'ts hurt av14
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Postby Redbeard » Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:21 pm

Fiends rock. Small screamer units work well, they force your opponent to spend shots on a small unit with a 4+ save, or get meltabombed. But, really, fiends can handle anything short of a monolith.

Soul Grinders with the S10 tongue shot are decent, but only hit half the time. They are, however, much cheaper than a loaded daemon prince, and an unloaded daemon prince dies as fast to small-arms fire as a soulgrinder does to a melta.
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Postby Lord Krungharr » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:14 am

I'm at work putting together some Screamers. The jetbike qualities are very appealing, and would annoy and worry me if I were to play them. Would anyone put Unholy Might on one? Seems like a waste of 10 points.
Since Warp Jaws count as 'equipped with melta bombs', are their single attacks S8 AP1 against non-vehicles? In case they get assaulted by some that is. I've not used melta bombs before.

I lost the bid on a unit of 5 Fiends on eBay a couple days ago, darn it! I really wanted to try them, just have 3 models right now. But I think Bloodcrushers vs. Fiends I would still pick the Crushers if I didn't need speed, plus the S6 on the charge is sweet, and the Iron Hide seems to save my guys better than 5+ saves.
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Postby Redbeard » Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:51 am

No, against non-vehicles, they use their profile, so they're S4.
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