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Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:21 am
by rosco
fred you forgot lucas from downstate. i never could keep his armies straight, niether could he till it mattered.

alan be prepared for the crap storm when you put them down if you go through with it.

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:50 am
by eilif
For the folks that objected, would you have less objections if the models were all WYSIWYG for weapons and equipment and the player handed you an army list with pictures accompanying each unit?

I ask because I'm currently working on a Squat army. (only 20 painted so far) In order to get all the units in a squat army as close as possible to squat fluff and WYSIWYG I'm probably going to use an allied Marine and IG army list. I realize this is going to be confusing for some folks, so even though the figs will be WYSIWYG, I still plan to have a pictorial army list.

The hope is to make it easy enough on the opponent that they will say "Cool, I get to play against squats!" rather than "Oh crap, here comes TFG with a proxy army."

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:14 am
by Turtle
it won't matter if you're army list is pictoral. I know the marine and ig books. And during the course of the game I would not be familiar with or know what things are what. Sure i could ask and possibly even look at your army list. But asking once is not going to be enough. It would be a constant thing during the game ok which unit is that again. And not just asking you. It would consume my thought process of trying to get it all right. However I still could get it wrong. In addition it completely ruins tactical train of thought. I can't make decisions as easily or as you. I also am prone to making the wrong decisions because I didn't fully comprehend what units where where and what. You now have a gigantic, hugely unfair tactical advantage. You however built it and painted it and thought about it alot. You can tell instantly at a glance what your army is.
It's like asking you to write an English thesis or Solve complex math equations during the game. Too many extra things to think about.

The people who will say ooo cool I get to play against squats, or would say things like that are not the ones you will be playing against in a tournament alan. They could be your round one opponents. The rest of the games will frustrate and anger people.

Look at it from the other side.

counts as armies can, and I severely stress the can look cool.

They are way way way too frustrating/unfair to play against.

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:34 am
by rosco
i'm not really for or against it for a pick up game. at a tournament i'd be a little more towards against. i caught tons of crap for my converted defilers years ago. they weren't modeled for advantage as many will claim after this post. i used parts on hand after the book that introduced the defiler came out and a year later couldn't afford the new actual models to replace them, and the crap at tournies continued to roll in till i got rid of that army. in fact i still catch crap for that army. so i don't bother with any scratch builds or major converting work anymore.

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:35 am
by YeezyMozart
eilif: I have an entire painted Squat army as well and I played it as guard and other than the flying land speeder "chimeras" no one had a problem with it, well not to my face. :D

In retrospect I probably won't do this Ork count as DA army since I already get into enough arguments with people in general. I would hate for someone to blame a loss to me because he or she is confused with my units. I still think that this confused argument is a bunch of poop considering the army list has two types of units. Its no big deal eventually an Ork codex will come out with fun and good bike rules for the entire army to be bikers.

Oh and to Redbeard,

I don't look at final placement in an event like Adepticon where everything is so equally weighted. I look at winning all my games when evaluating my performance at a tournament. If you took an all Ork bike army back in 5th edition and won all 4 games with it @ Adepticon that would have been amazing in my opinion and probably only likely with all favorable draws. It could happen but the chances are very low since so many things can just pound that army into the ground.

Your a supper cool dude and you have a beautiful army that I could never do myself. I am sure your paint and sports scores where much higher than your battle and they elevated you into that 21st place finish.

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:03 am
by CmdrVimes
I played a "counts as" army of Arbites that counted as Witch Hunters for long time. Had no complaints and got a lot of compliments. They were converted appropriately - back packs to show power armor and correct weapons - and I guess it helped that I was trying for fluff and not just a stronger army - something I've never been accused of. I think the Orks as DA thing stretches it a bit.

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:22 pm
by Turtle
I heard tons of complaints about the chimera land speeders. Lots of them for what its worth

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:01 pm
by DaGrippster
I heard tons of complaints about the chimera land speeders.

Yea, while I still think that the idea was cool and the models turned out very cool, we could have been done better to avoid complaining. The main issue with those was the LOS differences between that and a real chimera which is a valid concern.

I still use my squat infantry models regularly as henchmen/ guardsmen, and nobody has ever complained. Brad (2012 Adepticon winner) even borrowed some to use in the championships.

What is everyone's opinion on making a squat biker gang to represent ravenwing? Would that go over better than orks as ravenwing?

Re: Opinion Question

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:35 pm
by Lord Krungharr
I use Squats for my Traitorous Imperial Guard Veterans and for my occasional need of Chaos Cultists (my fluff being that these Squats fled into the Warp from the Tyranid menace devouring their brethren, and the joined up with Chaos to get revenge upon the Imperium/galaxy-at-large for not rescuing them from the Bugs).

I think if the Squat geneseed was spliced cleanly into the DA geneseed you could get a decent Ravenwing detachment there. And the bikes could go faster because they have less mass, like jockies on horses :P