MGD induced GK farce

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Postby Redbeard » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:39 pm

They do not count as a power fist, they count as a dreadnought close combat weapon. The distinction there is that the dreadnought version does not alter the model's initiative, or when it swings.

Without upgrades, he is I4, A4, S10, ignores armour

With the sword, he is either I4, A3, S10, ignore armour, OR I4, A3, S6, ignore armour, reroll to hit and to wound/pen.

With the hammer, he is either I4, A3, S10, ignore armour, OR I4, A3, S10, ignore armour, and anything he wounds/damages is either I1 or shaken next turn.
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Postby GregSwanson » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:11 pm

My question is I do not believe any one but a dread can use a ddcw. The dread knight is a mc not a dread. Just the fact that they include the hammer at all would lead me to believe that either a) they only count as str 6 and go at int 4 or b) they count as str 10 and go at int 1.
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Postby Redbeard » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:38 pm

Why would they invent a new piece of wargear and give it to a model that couldn't use it? That makes no sense. I think the hammer is there because they made a sprue with a giant hammer on it. Also, it is kind of good against greater daemons.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:36 pm

Page 73 under DCCW it says "If a walker is armed with two or more close combat weapons, it gains one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first."

I think this means a Dreadknight armed with a Doomfist and a Greatsword gets +1 attack.

It also says a DCCW is a power weapon that doubles the users strength. So that would mean the Dreadknight does not strike at initiative 1.
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Postby Redbeard » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:59 pm

The problem is that the dreadknight is not a walker, it's a monstrous creature. As such, it follows the rules for infantry, except where specified in the unit type section (page 51).
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:34 pm

Redbeard wrote:The problem is that the dreadknight is not a walker, it's a monstrous creature. As such, it follows the rules for infantry, except where specified in the unit type section (page 51).


This is correct, and is one of the many RAW problems with the Grey Knight codex. There are a lot of "derp" moments in the book that can be solved with some GAP and RAI thinking but RAW there is quite a large group of problems that prevent the rule from working like it should.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:06 am

Redbeard wrote:The problem is that the dreadknight is not a walker, it's a monstrous creature. As such, it follows the rules for infantry, except where specified in the unit type section (page 51).



And since it is not a walker it can't use the Doomfists (which only work on walkers - RAW). I agree with you Redbeard, the DK can use the Doomfist as a walker could. It makes no sense otherwise. However if we are giving it walker status to use the Doomfist, then it follows it must have walker status and get +1 attack for having a sword and fist. That's my thinking. Yakface said he thinks GW will have an FAQ for GK out in the next 2 weeks.
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Postby Redbeard » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:55 am

Well, GW's got the FAQs out, and apparently the Dreadknight cannot use the Doomfists that it was given. :roll: :roll:

So, options appear to be:
Base: 4 attacks, S6
Sword: 3 Attacks, S6 w/ re-rolls
Hammer: 3 Attacks, S10

The sword is pretty much a no-brainer upgrade with this ruling, with the hammer being possible if you feel the need for S10 in your list.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:19 pm

I'm not so sure the sword doesn't give you +1 attack when paired with the useless Doomfist. The Doomfist is still a dreadnought close combat weapon and those work with any other weapon to give +1 attack. On Dakka, Yakface seems to be leaning to my interpretation, however there are other memebers of the INAT team and I hope they vote on it and come to a ruling.
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Postby Redbeard » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:07 pm

But it's a very special class of DCCW - it also has the force weapon properties that are part of all Nemesis weapons. So it's not just a CCW, or even just a DCCW, it's definitely a special weapon.
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Postby Norbu the Destroyer » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:45 pm

Who needs that dreadknight now that hammerhand stacks. Libby with might, along with another IC with hammerhand can get a unit up to base S8.
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Postby GregSwanson » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:31 pm

I looked over the FAQ where does it say that hammerhand can stack?
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Postby Redbeard » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:53 am

They updated the main rulebook FAQ too, it's in there.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:00 am

There is also a big fight about JOTWW having to roll to hit now. I don't think it does, but they changed the definition of a psychic shooting attack and said they all have to roll for a hit now.
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Postby seahawk » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:42 am

Sword = special ccw
Fist = different special ccw

Ergo, no extra attacks. Doomfists only work with other weapons when mounted on walkers, which the Dreadknight is not. The Dreadknight, as a MC, follows the rules for non-vehicle close combat weapons on p42, while a walker follows the rules on p73.
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