1850pt Grey Knights

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1850pt Grey Knights

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sat May 07, 2011 9:25 pm

I'm in search of the Holy Grail of 40k armies. 29 models at 1850pts and competitive in tournament play.

HQ - Kaldor

EL - 10 Purifiers, 4 psycannons, 5 halberds, razorback, psybolt ammo

TR - 10 Paladins, 4 psycannons, apothecary, 5 halberds, 3 hammers, banner
TR - 5 Terminators, psycannon, 3 halberds, 2 hammers

HV - Dread w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons, psybolt ammo
HV - Dread w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons, psybolt ammo


In objective based missions, Kaldor can make 1-3 units claim objectives. That gives me 5-7 scoring units when I need them. In KP missions I can go down to 7 units.

The paladin unit, with Kaldor, is virtually immune to lone lascannon/multi-melta fire. Only multiple lascannons firing from one squad can hope to begin taking down paladins. I should be able to get a 4+ cover save for the unit if I spread out the paladins carefully around terrain. I also have a razorback and 2 dreads to help with that. Most multiple meltagun units are throw away units who are designed to get close and blow up a tank. They won't be able to deal with 10 paladins before they die so eventually I suspect the enemy will be out of paladin killing weapons and I'll have 4-6 paladins left. I also think my enemy will have to decide whether or not to concentrate on the paladins or the 4 shot str 8 dreads who ignore 1-2 on the damage table.

In combat the paladins will strike with 15 str 5 power weapon attacks at initiative 6 and 9 thunderhammer attacks. Somewhere in between Kaldor will swing the Titan Sword so assaulting this unit could be problematic at best. As long as I get the paladins to the center of the board, they should have shooting range with 16 str 7 rending shots to anything on the board.

With all the focus on the paladins, I almost forgot the 2 units who will win most games. The 5-man Terminator squad and the 10-man Purifier squad. The Purifiers shot as well as devestators (though the range is not there) and assault with the best of them. I should serious horde control with the purifiers combat squaded. The razorback can carry half forward while the other half stays back to claim an objective.

I'll have 6-7 units who can take out armor at range. Statistically the rending psycannon has the best chance to pop armor 14 at range in the game. This is from the firing of one weapon, which on the terminator frame fire 4 times.

Everything in the army can start off the board and while the paladins and terminators can deep strike close to the enemy, 5 purifiers can drive up in a razorback and the 2 dreads can engage units as soon as they walk on.

This is not a balanced 40k list. I think I have tools to deal with most current lists out there, but I will be outnumbered in units for each game. I think the dreads can find speeders and skimmers and as long at the paladins are near the center, I should be able to reach anything I need to with their psycannons.


Things I'm not sure of

I'm not sure of the weapon loadout on the paladins. I suppose I should go full wound allocation trickery, though I hate that rule. I like the halberd a lot for the initiative 6, much more than the sword for a 4+ invulnerable in HtH.
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Postby GregSwanson » Sat May 07, 2011 11:14 pm

Fred
I like it I have been playing around with a similar army. My only problem is I am afraid I will get completely outmaneuvered. I also worry about thunder hammer terminators. It would seem like they would take a major chunk out of the paladins for cheap. I so wish Drago could take some servo skulls to help out with the initial deep strike....
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Sun May 08, 2011 1:19 am

Fred,

Out of pure curiosity, which armies do you think you will struggle with? I say this as a serious question with no intention of trolling. I want to know some of the thinking of this list... which is interesting, clocking in a 29 models but still some good firepower.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun May 08, 2011 8:01 am

Greg - I'm not to worried about assault terminators into the paladins. Most assault terminator units are small, 5-man, and they will get hit with 15 ws 5 str 5 power weapon attacks. Kaldor might be able to get involved and throw in more pw attacks. My experience from fighting Bloodletters tells me that is to many pw attacks for a small unit of assault terminators to handle.


Joe - I'm not sure what army would be the biggest problem. As long as it's a non-common army type I wouldn't worry to much. I understand the concern about mobility, but it might be overstated. I'll post my first battle report against a very mobile mech BA list.

edited - Joe let me give you a more reasoned response. The most common armies I saw at AWC last year were as follows.

Space Wolves - missiles shouldn't be a problem. Thunderwolves shouldn't assault the paladins and grey hunters use a flurry of regular attacks which the apoth and 2+ armor save should negate.

Space Marines - There will be a 5-8 man assault terminator squad in LR, typhoons and some other stuff. They do not bring the preponderence of str 9, ap 2 weapons needed to engage the paladins.

Chaos marines - There are a couple and one that regularly appears has 2 princes and 9 oblits. The 9 oblits could be a problem

Dark Eldar - These guys starting making an appearance towards the end of the season. Most of their darklance weapons are on single shot platforms. Kaldor should suck up 6-8 of these shots before they hit any paladin. The two dreads will need to wreck a tranport a turn which they can do. I haven't had problems getting Hive Guard into range to shoot DE skimmers and the Termies should be as survivable as them.

Blood Angels - I used to be the only one playing these but now there are more showing up. They should be no different than the other MEQ lists.

IG - Jeff Florido will bring his IG out to win best painted, but after him there may be one other guy who comes every now and then. IG are just not popular where I play. In 2 years I have played IG 3 times.


That's it. There is a tau player who is switching to Space Wolves. There is one Necron player, but I don't think the gauss weapons can hurt paladins. I don't know if daemons will show up again with the new GK codex running around. To be honest 30% of the field is Space Wolves and 60% in total will be a loyalist meq varient. That's all I have to worry about and I don't see space wolves being able to handle paladins.
Last edited by Generalissimo_Fred on Sun May 08, 2011 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby GregSwanson » Sun May 08, 2011 8:40 am

I had tried to shoehorn a Libby and some more termies into the list, but I can see how the purifiers will rape hordes. I would love to play against it with the bikes. Let me know when you start play testing .
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun May 08, 2011 8:52 am

I playtested last night and wrote up a long battle report, but it got erased. The short version is the paladins lived longer than expected, repelled a blood taloned furioso and sat near the center shooting everything on the board. I used Kaldor (hiding on the table) to control my reserve rolls and come on the board after my opponent had deployed most everything. I dropped down in favorable locations, saturated the board with psycannon coverage which negated any mobility my opponent had. The BA could move 18-24" but all they would do is move from one psycannon covered zone to another. The Paladins in the center could always move back and forth between zones to tip the balance.

The game was 5 objectives and it made both sides spread out. I'm going to try it again against a castle formation and probably a kp or 2-mission objective.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun May 08, 2011 9:16 am

GregSwanson wrote:I would love to play against it with the bikes.


The Bikes need to be within 24" to shoot me and then I'm shooting you right back. I think as long as I sit near an objective in cover, I should have the shooting advantage over the bikes.
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Postby GregSwanson » Sun May 08, 2011 9:22 am

Fred
I am not saying I would own it but it would be a good game. I have a lot of melta that I can fire three of at a time. Also the land raider with the 2 twin lascannons will help plus the bikes with 6 plasma shots. I fell I could use my mobility to get one big salvo to weaken you and then hopefully send in the termies. Just a thought. I think it would be a very tactical game.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun May 08, 2011 9:39 am

Greg,

I was thinking of your all bike army with the command squad and the only armor was Typhoons. The mixed armor/bike army is more dangerous to the GK list and you are one of the few, outside Kareem's Oblits, that pack plasma. Most lists go all melta to combat armor. The lack of plasma could be my benifit.
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Taking the hanner in both hands

Postby Chubs » Sun May 08, 2011 1:41 pm

I like the list Fred, I also saw your notes in the tactical section.

This may sound weird, how do you think this list will handle another GK list (say like Greg's GK)? With Term armour, it's unlikely they you'll be able to dicticate the assualt. If another GK unit charges most of your units, the psy-grenades will kick in and cause you to strike at I1. Just something to consider.

Also, instead of letting a unit score, have you even giving a unit 'Hammer' power? I was re-reading the rules and it looks like the re-roll of 1's applies to ranged attack also. With a simple 10 man strike squad w. bolts (and a almost mandatory hammer ), S5 shots with re-roll 1's.... darn near effective s6 shots. Same for terminators, but I was just thinking the anti-deep striking ability might help out.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun May 08, 2011 1:57 pm

Good question about opposing GK armies. I'm not sure what will show up in that respect. Enemy GK's will get the charge in Land Raiders, Stormravens or an Interceptor Squad. I will swing last. Greg's 5 Termies pack 4 pw (banner guy has no weapons) and will get 3 wounds into me, insta-killing 3 paladins. (16 attacks on the charge, 8 hit, 4 wounds, I save 1)

The return attacks will deal 6 pw wounds back and maybe 4 get through. (assuming the enemy Librarian cancels my hammerhand). (18 attacks, 12 hit, 6 wound save 2?) If Kaldor is in the fight with his attacks I wipe out the squad. I'll lose 3 Paladins to kill 5 Termies who drove up in a LR. I'll have to make sure that I don't get hit with much more than that.

I'll only use the scoring unit power of Grand Strategy when I need it. In other games I have the option of rerolling all 1's to wound (it should work on shooting wounds), scouting some units which could let them outflank. I'm not sure I would use the counter-attack ability
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Postby Lord Krungharr » Sun May 08, 2011 2:53 pm

what does the psybolt ammo do to autocannons, or anything else for that matter? I don't play GKs, just 'curious'.

and are paladins just marines or have they better armour or invul saves? those sound brutal in a fire fight.
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things

Postby Chubs » Sun May 08, 2011 3:33 pm

Lord Krungharr
don't want to get in trouble for post rules... so maybe I can help you with the bolts question with other values you may know.

A storm bolter would become the strength of a Heavy bolter
a Heavy bolter would become the strength of an assualt cannon
an assualt cannon would become the strength of an autocannon
and an autocannon would become the strength of a missle launcher firing krak.

Pallies are like ork nobs w/ a waaagh banner in terminator armour. plus the have access to all things cool GK.

Fred, don't forget about the aegis when non-banner units charge you. Especially if your pallies as screaning a Dread with his super LD debuff

I still like the list, perhaps I'll get a chance to play against it at an AWC
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Postby DragonBait » Sun May 08, 2011 5:49 pm

In addition to myself, there's 1-2 other players that do play orks in the series as well. I haven't seen much GK action on the table, just speculation. How would they stack up do you think? Either horde or other builds? Personally I'm not going to be playing them at all this season, but they are still one a popular army (albeit not terribly in our series)
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun May 08, 2011 7:58 pm

Vs. Orks the GK's rely on the Purifier. In close combat the Purifier squad can cast cleansing flame which goes off before attacks are made. Every enemy model in the fight takes a wound on a 4+ and those deaths count towards combat resolution. This allows a Purifier squad to cut down almost half the Orks who will attack before they get to swing and adding those deaths to combat resolution will cause massive fearless saves.

Besides the Purifiers the rest of the army relies on stormbolter fire at range to thin out orks. Those stormbolters can be str 5 and that can really thin the hordes out.

One thing the GK could worry about are mounted assault Orks. Most of the infantry based heavy weapons are 24" range and though they can destroy any armor facing, just getting into range to shoot means you are in range of an open topped red battlewagon to disembark it's passengers and assault you.

If I were to play Orks I would try to combat squad the Prifiers to create as many cleansing flames attacks as I could. I only take one unit of Purifiers who can combat squad, but the most common GK list on the net has 3-4 Purifier squads all mounted.
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