Which has an advantage?

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Which has an advantage?

Postby YeezyMozart » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:55 pm

Me and a friend are going to be play testing this game but I feel like one list has a larger chance of winning.

I know any list can beat any list and all that jazz but in your opinion which list has a better shot against the other?

They are not exact but they are essentially:

1st list
Tyranids 1850

2 primes Bonesword pairs for each

3 hive guard
3 hive guard
3 hive guard

18 Gene steelers
Broodlord with Glands

18 Gene steelers
Broodlord with Glands

18 Gene steelers
Broodlord with Glands

18 Gene steelers
Broodlord with Glands

To be clear you have a shit load of infiltrating genestealers that can be in charge range turn 2. Plus with broodloards and primes in two units they are no push over in assault. In my opinion this is a marines nightmare list and they can stand toe to toe with almost anything in the game in assault.


VS

Dark Eldar 1850

Asrabal Vect (Spell Check)

4 Trubore
4 blasters
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

4 Trubore
4 blasters
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

4 incubi
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

5 Warriors Blaster
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

5 Warriors Blaster
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

5 Warriors Blaster
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

5 Warriors Blaster
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

5 Warriors Blaster
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

5 Warriors Blaster
Venom With Cannon upgrade (2 cannons)

Ravenger Dark Lances
Ravenger Dark Lances
Ravenger Dark Lances

To be clear thats 108 poison shots per turn from vehciles that move 12".
and there is a total of 23 Strength 8 lance weapons if you decide to move 6". Not to mention more poison shots from the regular warriors.
Then on top of all that you have Vect and incubi to clean stuff up.
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Postby seahawk » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:02 pm

Hands down the Dark Eldar. Their speed and being in vehicles means you hit on 6's, always. They have more than enough weaponry to bring down all your hive guard in a single turn, leaving them fairly free to avoid combats. Pray you get first turn?
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Postby Redbeard » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:04 pm

Hands down nothing - what's the terrain look like? If those hive guard can find LOS-blocking stuff to cower behind, it's a very different game isn't it?
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Postby YeezyMozart » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:38 pm

I don't think it is a "Hands Down" kinda game at all. I think both lists are great, but I do think the Dark Eldar list has a better chance. We will play test it and write the battle report up.

Assume there is a normal display of terrain 6/7 normal pieces.
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Postby seahawk » Mon Feb 07, 2011 4:35 pm

I s'pose it wouldn't be hands down, but it'd at least be uphill for the dinos. Cover saves be darned, forcing enough of them will produce results. They'd have to do it by the first or second turn though (also not too hard).

But yes, LOS blocking terrain would throw in a monkey wrench, if there's enough to hide nine 40 mils of course. Not impossible, but not that likely either.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Postby Norbu the Destroyer » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:00 pm

If you play KP Id say the bugs have the advantage. Also I assume the two players playing are of relative caliber/experience. Mission and deployment will also be key factors. DOW can really sink the Hive Guard's effectiveness vs long range - fast shooting.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:49 pm

I agree with Norbu. If the game is a straight up fight to see who kills more the DE have the advantage. The Bugs have the advantage in a KP game. I think the DE will have more of an overall advantage in the most scenarios and the Bugs will need a few things to go there way to get the best chance to win.

I'm not sure the DE list is the best to deal with Razorspam wolves or mech IG. Maybe it is though and I don't see it. The DE lists biggest weakness will be in KP games. No doubt.

I think the bugs could make a better list to try and deal with DE though. Is the DE list designed to deal straight with Bugs? It seesm so at first glance.
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Postby YeezyMozart » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:05 am

No, I did not make the dark Eldar list prior to the Tyranid list or even with the notion of fighting tyranids.

After the GBU tourney I had some change of heart opinions on dark eldar.

The all Wych army was very effective against my opponents but not as good against Guard.

Even with the hemonculous giving the wyches feel no pain off the bat, guard ignore it in so many ways, bunch of ap 2 and 1 and tons of strength 6 or higher weapons.

It also seemed that the raiders could not make their points back in any of my games. The wyches in side always made their points back but since the transports just died I felt in then end the units were not doing enough damage.

Then when i wanted to re-tool the list i felt that if I didn't utilize the assult qualities of the army maybe i could outweight that with posion shots. Those venoms shooting 108 shots and move 12 can dish out around 12 DEAD space marines. Thats great!!!!

Then against guard, which I feel Dark Eldar has the hardest time against you can move flat out and even when your venoms get popped you have tons of blasters all over the place to take down their vehicles.

At GBU when the raiders got blown and Wyches popped out in the middle of the board I had no use for them against a guard player. He mopped them up real quick.

Back to this scenario I agree with Norbu KP will be rough for Dark Eldar but with the new trend for tournies they can always loose that and try to obtain th other too objectives.

There are defiantly scenario's where the upper hand gets shifted quite a bit but out of a 1000 different games I say dark eldar list wins more then 500 of them.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:42 pm

That DE list has a Tony G. kind of flavor. It looks very powerful as a take on all comers list.
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Postby YeezyMozart » Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:58 pm

Yea that how i felt too about it.. being a take on all comers kinda approach.

Even though Tony reaped the benefits the most from that list it was a collaboration of his, mine, and Aaron towler's efforts before guard came along
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Postby preusser07 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:36 pm

I dont see exactly why you are using vect in 1850, i think hes to expensive in 1850 just to try to steal first turn.. But i have not play tested to much, just could never get him to fit right in my lists. i love the idea of stealing turn 1, but with blaster heavy lists, and the mech opponents you really want to steal from, if you dont steal 1st turn, then your enemy has a major advantage to deal some critical damage to your army on his first turn.
The biggest weakness of the dark eldar are the troops. sure, their transports are great, Venoms get there points back. but the troops themselves i find lacking. If you want venoms then you take 5 man squads or less, and they are way to fragile. The 5 man warrior with blaster is 60 points. they will only get one shot off with there blaster if they are lucky before they die. if you stay on or disembark from there transport, the enemy only has to aim at the transport to get a 2 for 1. really easy to get the explosion on armor10 open topped. explosions kill 1/3 of the warriors, then take a test on 8.
At GBU my last game was agianst mech bloodangels. i made the mistake of not putting everything in reserve on the wackky random setup of the scenerio, but even if i didnt i could barely do anything agianst his razorback, rhino, pred list. I had 15 DL, 4 HL for anti armor, agianst something like 12 vehicles. Was not enough. I think you could use some FA choices, scourges to be exact in your list.
This list i think 8/10 times will defeat the tyranid list, but would lose 8/10 times to mech IG/marines. would be a very good list to take to the local awc tourney, TWC wouldnt know what hit them.
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