The Bugs are a changin'

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The Bugs are a changin'

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:00 am

My original bug list had one thing in mind - destroy Space Wolves. Now I have run into Dark Eldar and I'm stuck. I need to better combat the DE and still retain my abilities against the SW. Here is the original list.

HQ - Swarmlord + Guard

EL - 3 Hive Guard
EL - 3 Zopes
EL - 7 Ymgarls

TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 20 Genestealers

HV - Trygon Prime
HV - Trygon w/ adrenal glands



My first attempt at trying to adapt to the DE whicle still taking on SW results in this.

HQ - Swarmlord + Guard
HQ - Tyranid Prime, devourer, twin boneswords, adrenal glands

EL - 3 Hive Guard
EL - 3 Hive Guard
EL - 7 Ymgarls

TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Genestealers w/ Broodlord
TR - 12 Termagants with devourers

HV - Trygon Prime

I'm changing the Zopes for Hive Guard who are better at killing light vehicles. I'm taking out a Trygon for 12 devourer gants and a Prime to keep them in order. Those little guys give me 36 str 4 shots at 18" on the move. I should silence a raider a turn and they also let me shoot up Grey Hunters in woods.

A more radical change produces this.

HQ - Swarmlord + Guard
HQ - Tyranid Prime, devourer, twin boneswords, adrenal glands

EL - 2 Hive Guard
EL - 2 Hive Guard
EL - 2 Hive Guard

TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Genestealers w/ Broodlord
TR - 12 Termagants with devourers

HV - Trygon Prime w/ adrenal glands


Now I lose the Ymgarls, but add in a another big unit of Gants. Hopefully those extra 18 Gants can make it across the board and get to the Long Fangs, who will be in cover. I also get a 3rd unit of Hive Guard, but each squad is reduced to 2 models. I can engage more vehicles at range, but I lose the units a little faster.

Finally I can go full swarm and make my games never end on time with this.

HQ - Swarmlord + 3 Guard

EL - 2 Hive Guard
EL - 2 Hive Guard
EL - 2 Hive Guard

TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 19 Genestealers
TR - 19 Genestealers
TR - 12 Termagants with devourers


Now I have a monster to lug around, only one synapse creature (with 11 wounds and T6) and 92 good HtH models which will be in the enemy deployment zone on turn 2. I don't think anything outside of a vehicle survives against this. Call it the virus bomb army, because that's the best way to get rid of it. This one looks more like what a true Swarmlord army should be, but damn that is a lot of models to paint.
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Postby seahawk » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:30 am

I would say it needs more shooting maybe. I suppose the crowd at the bunker is all Space Wolves with a smattering of other armies, but what kills land raiders? All I see is the swarmlord.

You could always go 2x2 Hive guard and 3 Zoanthropes.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:52 am

You must be talking about the Swarm list. I would need to find 80pts to change 2 Hive Guard into 3 Zopes. In theory the Stealers could get furious charge from the Swarmlord and strike the LR at str 5. With rending I could get glances with them. If the Broodlord is in there he could strike at str 6 with rending and get a lucky pen.
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Postby Crumpsky » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:19 am

I think your first change to the list is your best one. You are still able to successfully deal with wolves, as well as handle the DE. The DE have light vehicles so you should have no problem taking them down with 2 sets of hive guard, and the gants. You will also be able to pen the SW razorbacks if you see a lot of those.

Im normally not a big fan of Ymgarls, but you always need an ace in the hole, they could potentially make or break your game.
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Re: The Bugs are a changin'

Postby Zero_Cool » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:55 pm

Generalissimo_Fred wrote:... My first attempt at trying to adapt to the DE whicle still taking on SW results in this.

HQ - Swarmlord + Guard
HQ - Tyranid Prime, devourer, twin boneswords, adrenal glands

EL - 3 Hive Guard
EL - 3 Hive Guard
EL - 7 Ymgarls

TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Hormagants w/ poison
TR - 18 Genestealers w/ Broodlord
TR - 12 Termagants with devourers

HV - Trygon Prime




How about droping the Tyranid Prime and Termagants for a Tervigon? Even at base cost the Terv is a synapse MC with the power to extend the hive mind to 18". You then have the option to creat more scoring units for the objective games or not to in the kill point games.

If you wanted to you could even drop the termagants down to 10, drop the prime off the Trygon and make a troop Tervigon (need to find some points for this - drop the Broodlord). With the Swarmlord's 18" synapse and the potential of the 18" from the Tervigon you could cover the board fairly well.

Biggest issue I see then is target priority for your opponent. Choose the Tervigon as top spot to stop you from spawning and he leaves your Swarmlord untouched. Go the other way and you can potentially spawn a few extra scoring units before he can stop it.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:12 pm

I have no doubt Tervigons are good units to take, especially in objective missions. You need a unit of Termagants to start, unless you take it as an HQ choice. From the beginning I have really wanted to make a list that does not use Tervigons or Tyrannofexes because there is no model and I think they are to common. I wanted to make the bugs work without them. I have no doubt if a Tervigon model is released I would buy it and use it. They would be great with the Genestealers for sure.
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Postby n00bzilla99 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:00 pm

Give Genestealers FNP before they assault with a Tervigon. That's a nasty assault unit, undoubtedly.

I wouldn't be so quick to drop out the broodlords. Broodlords are so under-appreciated it's not even funny. A 46 point upgrade literally slew a Summoned Greater Deamon, stood up to Sang Guard and is a HUGE distraction for people who hate stealers for me.

To fit the tervigon in, I'd drop the Tyranid Prime, reduce the stealer brood size to 15 + the Lord, and drop the 12 gaunts with devourers down to 10. That should give you enough.

Alas though, Fred has said his goal is to run the bugs without a tervigon which is a totally legit way to play them. His list is a good example of that, I have seen others which don't use Tervigons and instead focus on stealers as troops (broken into small squads) with broodlords and some big beastys to back them up.

Gargoyles are pretty good from what I hear. The blinding venom + toxin sacs and adrenal glands for 8 points a piece jump infantry is great for screens and taking on big slow creatures (wraithlords etc)

One thing I have noticed is that is in my opinion wisest to hold the swarmlord until 2000 point matches since he is such a point investment.

For my 1850 list, to scale to 2000, I buy the swarmlord with a single guard and add in a few more gaunts for points, I haven't tried it yet but it seems pretty nasty.
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Postby Norbu the Destroyer » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:29 pm

The Domm of Malantai could solve a few of your issues. Against wolves he can drop between squads and they will have 2 Ld checks before they can even fire a shot at you. Of course they could move their fangs instead of shooting it, but they arent shooting if they move.

It does not have synapse, but it does have shadow for disrupting psychics. A doom in a pod is only 130 points and that should save a few points from the Ymagrl.

He has an AP1 large blast shot if you draw DE, but that can be used against any army. Not only that DE are low for LD, the Doom should melt a few to get his wounds/strength up.
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Postby Crumpsky » Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:17 pm

THe Doom is almost a one trick pony, they know what you are going to do when they see that in your list. Also taking doom you lose a squad of hive guard, which is more reliable safe shooting.

Look at it this way, shoot from behind cover and be safe, or shoot from their lines and last 1 turn at best?

Hive Guard Unit > Doom in this case.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:54 pm

Norbu is talking about switching the Ymgarls out for the Doom with a Pod. If I do this with the first changed list, then I'll still have 2 units of 3 Hive Guard to open things up before the Doom gets there. He's saying the Doom can fill the roll of disrupting Long Fangs while still being better at taking out vehicles than the Ymgarls are. I'm not sure if the Doom is even as good as the Ymgarls vs. Long Fnags since Fangs get a cover save vs. his powers and I find they are almost always in cover.

I have been intrigued by the Doom for a while and though they don't make a model for it, which usually prevents me from playing with it, I have been searching for a Doom conversion on ebay for some time. I would seriously consider taking him in a Pod. I figure he can do all the things you have mentioned and he is a great counter to enemy Bug lists. He can literally suck the termagants out of a tervigon list just as fast as they can make them. I like that idea.
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Postby MaxeysPad » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:43 pm

Fred, I know this is a late post. Did you want a Doom of Malantai?
I can start converting one. Let me know.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:36 am

I actually got off my but and put one together. It's ugly as hell, IMO, but I heard a GW Doom might be in the works so I'll use the Ugly Doom until the official one arrives.

The list has morphed slightly and it's working out well so far.

HQ - Swarmlord + Guard
HQ - Prime with boneswords

EL - 3 Hive Guard
EL - 3 Hive Guard
EL - Doom in Pod with cluster spines

TR - 18 poison Hoppies
TR - 18 poison Hoppies
TR - 17 poison Genestealers
TR - 17 poison Genestealers
TR - 11 Devourer Gants


It's much more horde than I originally wanted, but I don't suffer in objective games like I used to.
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