Adepticon Reflections----Good/Terrific/Constructive

AdeptiCon 2011 will be held April 1st - 3rd, 2011 at the Westin Lombard Yorktown Center in Lombard, IL. Visit the AdeptiCon website (www.adepticon.org) and start planning today!

Postby AgeOfEgos » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:45 pm

Yeah, it was a bit annoying---and as I pointed out in my original post it's the 2nd year in a row the ATM went down. Not so bad this year as the vendors actually took plastic (Although FWs card machine was down for a bit as well).

As a tip if you attend next year and the ATM goes down----Target does have one and it's a short walk. Hopefully though the hotel addresses it.

JonnyP wrote:Overall another great event. While not Adepticon Staff's fault....the ATM being out of order was a major problem. Maybe add that to the list of things the facilities mgr of the staff should check on before the event begins.
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Postby YeezyMozart » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:01 pm

Everything went well I think baring some computer issues I heard about. i don't think that there where any issues.

The tournament organizers did a great job and it is extremely hard to run events this large and it went fantastic!

My 2 cents: Champs Overall scoring system and why it is lame.

I like how the top 16 people are selected from straight W/L/D, thats fine.

But why is the overall scoring so jacked? I know I know it was all laid out online....well it was too late to complain then and I didn't experience it yet.

At the AWC events here in Chicago we still have battle points as 65% of the scores which would in my opinion still make since. The best Xenos player for example could have no wins all day with the current system because he could have a perfect paint and perfect sports and that is 85 points. There is already a best painted and best sportsmanship and best general award but I think it is important to keep the standings relative to what happened at the tournament. I had 3 wins my first three games and a loss game 4 ( Dice failed me) but I came in the 80's for overall scoring with a 32 in paint and two positive scores.

Thats another huge problem sportsmanship WAY too many people had a high score and no one takes it seriously. Whats wrong with a average game? Positive games should only impact the score by a point so that you an have a best sportsman, most games should be average. When I hosted the AWC I just have positive games being 1 point higher then average because a average game is great it is what you are suppose to have I don't have epic games every time.

My opinion is that the difference in positive and average scores are too big and that battle points are not a large enough percent of the overall score. Each objective should be worth 10 pts give you a total of 120 battle points.

Other than that I had no huge issues with the weekend event you guys did a great job.
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Postby Matthias » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:22 pm

Agreed on the Sportsmanship issue. Too much faith in people reading and using the system as intended.

Simple fix is to remove Positive marks from results sheets. Only give 2 options: Decent Game or Negative Game. Then, with round 4 results you get to vote for your favorite Opponent of the event.

Overall Showings for the Friday event were intended to not focus on Battle. It was a roughly equal split (33%) of Battle, Appearance and Sportsmanship + the Quiz. With a MAJORITY of players being liberal with Positive Marks it only harms a few players who faced more than one person who was actually using the Sportsmanship system as intended, so I don't think it was a huge issue this year - yet something that will change for sure.

If Overall were weighted heavily towards battle, I can guarantee you'd be asking why all the Friday awards just went to the Top 16 qualifiers...
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Postby 00Enron » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:25 pm

b-rad,

This is everyones game. We all play it. Redbeard sums it up best in a number of different posts across numerous forums.

Some people prefer scores based more heavily on battle points or that equivilent so you have best general.

Some people prefer scores based more heavily on painting so you have have best appearance.

Some people prefer scores based on how good of a sportsman you are durring the game.

All of these qualities go into factoring in who the best overall award should go to at the end of the day.

The adepticon staff posted the way the scoring system was going to be prior to the event so everyone could/should plan accordingly. Its like people who complain about a composition heavy tournament knowing that the tournament is going to be comp heavy. There was no last minute changes or suprises. Having everything equal may not be something that you personally agree with but you are comming at it from one particular perspective. There is a wide spectrum of reasons that people play in tournaments. Playing in a system in which no one particular aspect is emphized is not wrong its just how it was organized for that particular year.

I agree with you though on the sportsmanship scores though I think there has to be a way to get accross the notion that only one person durring the 4 rounds should recieve a positive game.
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Postby DragonBait » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:23 pm

I gotta agree with B-rad on this one with the scoring....I mostly go to the tournaments to have fun and play. Emphasis on the play. My painting scores are only going to be so high on an army (lack of skill there), and people may only like me so much (throughout the champs I explained to my opponents how they intended the scoring on that to work, might have hurt me since I know I got 3/4 averages). I am ecstatic where I ranked overall with all the soft scores included, but I like where I'm ranked even more just based on the games. I was really glad to see the top 16 had to advance via pure winning, and if it was based on overall total combined scoring I wouldn't have bothered going. My odds of winning out are far better than my odds of winning "good enough", and then relying on my paint and other soft scores to propel me to the top. I know there are some other people that agree with this, as some I talked to after friday's results complained. Like I said though, I'm happy where I ended up anyways...all I can do is try to improve my game record next year.

Otherwise my time was great. The single most thing that impresses me about adepticon is that everything seems to run right on schedule. Many kudos to the staff and organizers for keeping on task and running it all. Not having the day drag on (since they're already long days!) was very nice! Can't wait for next year.
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Postby Redbeard » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:20 pm

You know, the scores on the Adepticon site can be sorted however you want. If you want to see how you placed in terms of raw battle points, click the battle point header and the site will sort it for you.

If that's all you care about, that's all you have to do to get that information. There's no need to detract from anyone else's enjoyment of the game or the event.

The top 16 were selected by battle points only. I think that's fair. Other than that, if you didn't win a prize in a category and you didn't make the top sixteen, how you choose to sort the rest is up to you. It doesn't impact anything.

Just remember, there are plenty of people out there who do like the overall approach. This event exists as much for them as for you. Complaining that the soft scores matter in the championships is as silly as going to the gladiator and complaining that your opponent's army was too tough and painted badly. That's the event designed to cater to the battle-only crowd. There's plenty of game time for all of us, there's no reason to demand that the non-gladiator be turned into a gladiator as well.
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Postby DennisJ » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:43 am

The ATM was up and down all weekend long. Target's ATM also went down several times. Pretty sure both did their best at keeping them going as to not miss sales. Next year I'll try to get a small map together of the local banks and ATMs to help. My personal belief is you can never have to much cash at a con, so best to plan accordingly next year.

I agree that the amount of trash left on some tables was appalling and reflects poorly on everyone. We'll try to get some more trash cans available for next time and make a few polite announcements as a reminder. I personally think that players leaving the table a mess should be docked on scoring. Seems to be a pretty basic sportsman and consideration thing to me.
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Postby Matthias » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:08 pm

At one point someone from Target came over to the Westin to ask what was going on. I guess they got slammed over the weekend and requested the hotel give them a heads up next year.
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Postby Fallensaint » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:49 pm

All I can say to the complaints on scoring is this:

People are in this hobby for a multitude of reasons...theres tons of people who just want to play...and having to paint an army is their least favorite part...Then you have the complete other side of that where someone loves painting so much they rarely get a game in... And then there are those that enjoy all there is to offer equally.

Your souped up Tourney army may be built for crushing opponents on the table and that is your focus in building an army and a list.

Someone else's version of a souped up army is one they labored over in painting for a long time and they come to play just for fun.

Neither is wrong...it is where your focus lies... The scoring system and rules were laid out a VERY long time ago. And people built their lists accordingly...Either way people cannot just be grouped together into one catagory. To think so is ignorant and shortsided. Its not how many games you win or just how awesome your paintjob is. Its a combination of everything the hobby has to offer. At the end of the day if you cant let yourself just have fun and realize its just an event to meet and play others...or show off the paintjobs youve worked on all year then maybe the issue is with yourself and not with Adepticon.

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