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do you have to take armor saves

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:11 pm
by stinger989
after reading the rule book and playing in the last Tourny they ruled that if someone shoots at a unit or assaults at a unit you can choose if you want to take your armor saves.

In the main rule book it says you "may" choose to take your armor saves so according to the english you can choose if you pass or fail.

Is this how adepticon is going to go with the ruling, you can choose to pass or fail your armor saves? thats how the ruling is going in the tournment i was just wondering about the adepticon facts.

THANKS,

IVIOOSE

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:37 pm
by Bon_Vivant
IVIOOSE,

This is not an offical reply.

You are bat-sh*t insane if you actually belive that you "may" allways make an armour save.

This is why I cannot and will not play rules idiots.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:51 pm
by DragonBait
I think he means that you can choose whether or not you want to even attempt to make an armor save. I've had situations where I've wanted a unit to die from shooting....still kinda silly though

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:32 pm
by Crumpsky
Its not silly, sometimes it may be a big time game decision. And Bon_Vivant you should learn to read before posting a lame reply. His intention was not to argue that he can always take saves, he was arguing if he had to take them.

Hopefully someone who knows the answer will post it soon.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:12 pm
by DragonBait
Sorry I wasn't clear either. I meant silly in that a soldier with armor will try to take a bullet lol.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:46 pm
by seahawk
I think it can be countered by pg 24: "In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:52 pm
by stinger989
It just came up in the last tournment i was in and after shooting at a unit he just removed models so i would not be able to charge him. the tournment organizers ruled that you could just let them die as it states "may" as in you can choose if they just die.

I would just like to get a clarification before adepticon so i wont have to spend time getting a judge over.....

It is rather silly but that is how the rule book is written.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:40 pm
by n00bzilla99
You must always make an armor save. The BRB states "In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."

While it's under the "Multiple saves" heading, it effectively states that, if you have a save, you must take the best one you can. Which is a sweeping statement. Because if you only have 1 save, you must still take it because it is the best save available.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:41 pm
by RAMSEY
After re-re-reading through the BRB I found no place that you "must" roll for a save. If you find the page number please post it.

I did find under Remove Caualties pg.24 first sentence says "For every model that fails a save, the unit suffers a wound.". So if the player did not save or unsave any wounds, how could he take off any models?

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:53 pm
by Bon_Vivant
I apologize.
I stand corrected. Good luck.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:23 pm
by n00bzilla99
Ramsey:

Please see the above post:
I think it can be countered by pg 24: "In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:48 am
by RAMSEY
AdeptusBrewCityJoe wrote:Ramsey:

Please see the above post:
I think it can be countered by pg 24: "In these cases, the model only ever gets to make one saving throw, but it has the advantage of always using the best available save."


I still don't see the word "must" anywhere in that. Give me a page number that states "must" take a save.

Either way the guy cannot remove models without at least trying to make a save.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:21 am
by seahawk
Hint: always can stand for must :P

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:05 pm
by RAMSEY
seahawk wrote:Hint: always can stand for must :P

No it does not. Typing " but it has the advantage of always using the best available save" says an advantage can be taken. Still does not mean "must". :P

PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:24 pm
by seahawk
No it doesn't.

Saying "A model has the advantage of" is completely different from "A model can take advantage of."

In the first (as it is in the book) a model has it, and because it has it, it must always use (which is equivalent to "always use") the best one. In the second a model can use it, but doesn't have to. The rule doesn't say anything about "can," only that it "has and always."