Question about scoring units in team tourney

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Question about scoring units in team tourney

Postby bcompdude » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:04 pm

If someone takes a special character--like Pedro Kantor for instance--that allows a certain type of unit to be scoring...will that apply to all of the other lists as well?
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Postby muwhe » Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:31 pm

Assuming all the forces are considered "Brothers in Arms", Pedro Kantors rule would only apply in any given round to the 2-player Coalition that included him.





From the TT Rules :

http://www.adepticon.org/11rules/201140Kteam.pdf


 Special Abilities (other than alterations to the Force Organization) that would affect an entire ‘army’ or ‘friendly units’ may affect both Team Members of a 2-player Coalition if their forces are considered to be ‘Brothers in Arms’, but will not affect forces in the other Coalition on a different table. Example: Vulcan’s special ability counting all Melta, Flamer, and Thunder hammers, as master crafted would apply to any Coalition units purchased from Codex Space Marine. It would not apply to the other two Team Members playing on a different table, or units purchased from any other codex.
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Postby Matthias » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:00 pm

The Team Tournament rules state:

Special Abilities (other than alterations to the Force Organization) that would affect an entire ‘army’ or ‘friendly units’ may affect both Team Members of a 2-player Coalition if their forces are considered to be ‘Brothers in Arms’, but will not affect forces in the other Coalition on a different table. Example: Vulcan’s special ability counting all Melta, Flamer, and Thunder hammers, as master crafted would apply to any Coalition units purchased from Codex Space Marine. It would not apply to the other two Team Members playing on a different table, or units purchased from any other codex.


Furthermore, Brother is Arms is defined as:

For the purposes of the AdeptiCon Warhammer 40K Team Tournament, units purchased from the EXACT SAME CODEX are considered ‘Brothers in Arms’.


So - to your example: If both Team Members are playing the exact same codex and are in the same Coalition that round, then special abilities from Special Characters would benefit his teammate if they are Brothers in Arms. Those special abilities would have no bearing on the other table/coalition. These special abilities WILL NOT affect units from other codices in a Coalition since they are not Brothers in Arms.

Also - keep in mind:

Wargear and abilities that affect your Coalition's forces DO NOT stack. (e.g., two Inquisitors with Emperor's Tarots do not potentially add +2 to the die roll to go first).


That is to say, if two special abilities or pieces of wargear overlapped on the same table (example: Ork Kustom Force Field), the units under both would not receive the benefits from both.
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Postby tear of the angel » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:28 pm

This is one of the reasons GW should of just changed to traits that gave you the chapters rules.
With how this is being ruled you can't really take one chapter as every round two players will just be vanilla marines, unless you want to play Iron hands. I's like to see this changed in the future.
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Postby muwhe » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:42 pm

How do you propose it to be changed?
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Postby Matthias » Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:13 pm

In their current form, combined with how pairings work in the 40K Team Tournament, allowing Special Abilities of this nature to impact both games would be a massive mistake.

People have enough trouble keeping their own army lists straight, and to allow a unit in another Team Member's list that is currently on another table to impact a game would be an logistical mess that is ripe for abuse.

The idea is to thematically represent the presence of that character on the battlefield and to add an aura of adaptability and teamplay to the games. A Team should be considered a single strikeforce that has been split up to deal with two threats. Of course, you will notice that Force Organization changes due to the inclusion of certain Special Characters do in fact transcend table boundaries - yet this is for a very different reason, is designed to actually minimize the confusion per game and to make sure the each Team Member is adhering to the Force Organization list (otherwise units would change Force Org slot on a game per game basis).

Nothing has changed in regards to the 40K Team Tournament and how Special Abilities like this mesh. What has changed are the former restrictions on Special Characters which penalized non-homogeneous, yet thematic teams.

In order to change this in any fashion, you would need to radically alter the way pairings or handled or make the games 4 vs. 4. Additionally, you will have to buy all those Xenos players lunch!
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Postby tear of the angel » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:39 am

The only thing I'm really tring to say is that GW should of simplified it.
For example, Crimson fist have stubborn special rule as well as having sternguard counting as scoring. Salamanders have twin linked melta and flamers, white scars have bikes as troops, and so on. Although I don't really see it being to much of a problem to have the entire task force using one characters special rules. I always look at it as one giant battle fought on two fronts, so in a sense, it would just be one army. In my opinion change the force org for all the teams and rules being used by all the teams that much differnt.
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Postby moonshadow13 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:48 pm

if that was the case tear then you would see multiple copies of the same team over and over gain as its the winning combo. It would take away from the variety of difernt and creative teams we get now. Besides just think about that if it was a Nurgle CSM with Nurgle Daemons and Epidemus was in there and could effect all 4 armies.

You have to look at it as a balance thing. They put it in place to maintain balance. I for one like the balance of the team tournaments and that is why i keep coming back every year to place since i was introduced to Adepticon by Depayen. What can i say except Puss Bags Revenege FTW!!
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Postby tear of the angel » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:03 pm

Yeah I guess I see what your saying. I really like the tournament to. I play in all three of them though. This will be my 5th or 6th year can't rember, but its going to be fun.
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