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Chaos marks and squads

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:41 am
by goatboy
I just wanted to check on this. Is it the case that a Chaos lord with a mark can join a unit of models with a different mark where the special rules of the squad and the independent character still apply to themselves?

Does a lord with mark of khorne who joins a squad with the icon of nurgle gain that nurgle ability?

Does a lord with a mark of nurgle that joins a squad of berserkers have no changing effect? (Basically, the squad and the lord retain their separate special rules?

Thank you to anyone who can help clarify.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:51 pm
by seahawk
In 40k you can have any mix'n'match you could want, so a Tzeentch sorceror and a Slaanesh Lord could be chillin' with some Khorne Berzerkers in a rhino or taking a stroll. They're best buds now in this edition!

No rules intermingle or are shared. Marks stay with those that have them.

Completely unfluffy, but great for counts-as purposes.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:52 pm
by Hero Jones
Each unit that has its own mark will retain the effects of that mark.

So your example with the lord with khorne joining a squad with nurgle: the khorne lord keeps his +1 attack, and does not get +1 toughness. While the squad retains its +1 toughness, but does not get +1 attack.


PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:59 pm
by Turtle
the only exception to this rule is in the chaos daemons codex

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:51 am
by crashwell
Marks? Or Legion Troops, Thomas?

The Khorne Lord joining a Plague Marine squad does NOT gain FNP (but I bet you knew that). If he joins a CSM squad waving a Stank Banner (i.e. Nurgle) for the T5, he *may* get that while he's with the squad ... not positive until I check the Codex. The rule of thumb is:

The Icon grants the squad "Modifier/Rule X".
All members of the squad gain "Modifier/Rule X".
Character joins aforementioned squad, he then gains "Modifier/rule X"

The first example that comes to mind is the Narthecium. A Narthecium grants Feel No Pain to the squad. Characters in the squad also gain Feel No Pain. Some other examples:
- Litanies of Hate
- Shrike's Infiltration
- Khan's Furious Charge/Hit and Run
- Snikrot's "Ambush"
... etc, etc

I think the Berserker's Furious Charge is a USR that carries an Asterisk on pg 74-ish (don't have my BRB on me) ... and is subsequently lost if joined by a unit that doesn't have the same USR ... The Lord would keep his T5, but he would not gain the Furious Charge. I'm also pretty certain that the 'Zerkers would lose Furious Charge while he's attached to them.

Damn not having my rulebooks. You'd think I'd have this memorized by now.

Jeff (herojones) is right about the "generic" marks. If you're talking about Chaos Space Marine squads with the Icon of "X": those are stat mods that do not grant special rules, and therefore are not affected by the dreaded "asterisk stigma".

Once again, no rulebooks on me at home, but I'll check for ya Monday. Tony can probably follow this up if he checks back before then (he's right in that anyone can join just about anyone in C:CSM) - it's simply a matter of what units you are asking about, and if the relevant USRs are kept or not.

Heck, call John if ya need to, he prolly has it memorized =P

Be well,

PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:35 am
by seahawk
"When an independent character joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself, the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character, and the character's special rules are not conferred upon the unit."

Also, it clearly states in the codex for each icon:
"All models in the unit, except independent characters joining the unit, have the mark of X."


PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:53 am
by crashwell
That's about what I thought. I knew there was a rule for the Icons of Chaos and interaction with characters, I just didn't have the book.

There's more to that first one, though. Some of the USRs are lost when ICs join units, like in the example Goatboy gave about the Nurgle Lord and the Berserkers. The specific rules are at the top of pg 74 or 74, iirc.