TT units that don't use a slot on the force org chart

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TT units that don't use a slot on the force org chart

Postby allen » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:47 pm

If I was to take units that don't count as part of the force org chart i.e., summoned lesser daemons (troops), summoned greater daemons (hq), spawn (fast attack), can I take these after the compulsory slots been filled and would they count beyond the allowance of choices in the team tourney such as taking three units of chaos marines and two units of lesser daemons and a chaos lord plus the greater daemon?
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Postby Matthias » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:29 pm

Per the Team Tournament rules:

Units from various Codices that do not take up a Force Organization slot may be taken in addition to units allowed by the 40K Team Tournament Force Organization chart as long as the unit prerequisites are met (e.g.,Dark Angel and Blood Angel Techmarines, Dark Angel Command Squads, Blood Angels Honour Guards count, Chaos Lesser Daemons, Space Marine Command Squads, The Emperor's Champion (see Clarifications below)). This also includes multiple units bought in a single Force Organization slot (e.g.,Chaos Daemon Heralds, Space Wolves HQ).
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Postby allen » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:01 am

Thank you!
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Postby moonshadow13 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:06 am

Allen,

If i read everything correctly and as Mathias has shown In the rules posting i just wanted to verify this but in simple terms. If you are to take a summoned Greater daemon he counts as a HQ slot in Adepticon rulings right? I beleive i played Lesser Damons last year and while normally they do not take a slot, in these tournaments they do count as troops and they do count as a troop slot.

So if you wanted to field them as a troop choice you can, but your limited to 3 troop choices. At the same time the Summoned greater daemon would count as your 1 HQ slot. Am i saying this correctly?
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Postby Matthias » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:10 pm

This has been changed. The old count-as rule was in place last year and previous years - but this is not the case this year. The above quote is from the 2010 rules packet and what applies to the Force Org this year.
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Postby moonshadow13 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:00 pm

Wow so i need to look into that then as lesser daemons don't count as troops slot now and you could technically field multiple greater daemons as long as i have the champions to sacrifice for them? This could be a good year for chaos players.

Thanks for the info.
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Postby Inquisitor_Malice » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:19 pm

moonshadow13 wrote:Wow so i need to look into that then as lesser daemons don't count as troops slot now and you could technically field multiple greater daemons as long as i have the champions to sacrifice for them? This could be a good year for chaos players.

Thanks for the info.


Only if you have a greater demon on each team members army. You can't field multiple greater demons per team member's army.
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Postby vampboi » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:59 pm

Summoned Greater Demons in the chaos codex are listed as 0-1 sorry :P

Can't weasel in 3 or 4 of em lol
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Postby moonshadow13 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:10 am

sorry thats what i meant to say was the team could filed 1 extra each hence using multiples. At 100 pts a shot it shouldn't be to hard to squeeze one in.

I was just shocked they are going that route this year. It does however keep chaos players from fielding lesser damons and greater damons as their troop and HQ choices. So i will have to retract my statement earlier and say it will suck for the chaos players. As the lesser daemons cost 13 pts each you could really build up some units with 1000 pts and still put in some heavies, elites, and the like.

thanks for the update me and explaining the rules on these unit types.
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Postby Matthias » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:49 am

Inquisitor_Malice & vampboi are correct.

There is no longer a 'count-as' list for the Team Tournament. Chaos Space Marine players can field a Summoned Greater Daemon (or Summoned Lesser Daemons) per their codex. That is, the do not take up a slot in the Force Org and can be purchased outside the traditional Team Tournament Force Org (allowing CSM Players to purchase a normal HQ unit AND a Summoned Greater Daemon).

You are still bound to the codex restrictions however, and since Summoned Greater Daemons are a 0-1 choice, each Team Member is limited to a single Summoned Greater Daemon.
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Postby Krak_kirby » Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:18 pm

The INAT clarifies that a Ministorum Priest or Techpriest Enginseer can be taken as the one mandatory HQ selection in an Imperial Guard army.

These units count as an HQ selection but don't use an HQ slot. If this is so, can I take an allied Inquisitor Lord as well as a Priest or Enginseer in my 1000 point team tourney list?

I am assuming that the priest or enginseer counts as a selection from the parent list, and the only difference from a "standard" HQ is that it doesn't use the slot.

Thanks!
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Postby Matthias » Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:35 pm

Compulsory HQ choices must be taken from the parent codex.
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Postby Krak_kirby » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:48 pm

So I may take an allied inquisitor lord for the team tournament?

I would take a Ministorum Priest or a Techpriest Enginseer as my my one mandatory HQ choice from the parent codex, as permitted by the INAT document (pg 61). These HQ choices do not use up any Force Org chart selections, so I should still have an opening for another HQ, correct?
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Postby Inquisitor_Malice » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:12 pm

Hey Kevin -

I believe what Matt is saying is (and Matt - correct me if I am wrong) that the compulsory HQ choice must come from the parent codex. The enginseer and priest do not fulfill this choice. However, in the team tournament rules, they can. Per the quoted rule line below:

The Emperor's Champion is not considered a mandatory/required choice for a Black Templar army in the Team Tournament. Furthermore, as a selection that does not use a Force Organization slot, the Emperor's Champion may fulfill the mandatory HQ choice in a Team Members Force Organization or he may be fielded as an additional HQ choice. No single 1000-point Team Member list may include more than 1 Emperor's Champion.

So - the compulsory HQ choice can be either:

1. Fulfilled by the enginseer or the priest.
-or-
2. Fulfilled by another HQ selection within the parent codex (in this case IG).

In either scenario, you can not take an HQ allied inquisitor since that unit does take up an HQ slot and none are available. I believe that should sum things up correctly.

Talk to ya' later,
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Postby Rhysk » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:49 pm

Inquisitor_Malice wrote:Hey Kevin -

I believe what Matt is saying is (and Matt - correct me if I am wrong) that the compulsory HQ choice must come from the parent codex. The enginseer and priest do not fulfill this choice. However, in the team tournament rules, they can. Per the quoted rule line below:

The Emperor's Champion is not considered a mandatory/required choice for a Black Templar army in the Team Tournament. Furthermore, as a selection that does not use a Force Organization slot, the Emperor's Champion may fulfill the mandatory HQ choice in a Team Members Force Organization or he may be fielded as an additional HQ choice. No single 1000-point Team Member list may include more than 1 Emperor's Champion.

So - the compulsory HQ choice can be either:

1. Fulfilled by the enginseer or the priest.
-or-
2. Fulfilled by another HQ selection within the parent codex (in this case IG).

In either scenario, you can not take an HQ allied inquisitor since that unit does take up an HQ slot and none are available. I believe that should sum things up correctly.

Talk to ya' later,


This is exactly correct.
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