Adepticon Gladiator question

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Postby Elthniar » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:29 pm

Matthias wrote:We are open to suggestions - always, but this sort of stuff needed to be discussed 6-9 months ago and requires a volunteer to champion it. 2010 is right around the corner.


That's exactly what I was trying to say.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:29 pm

Elthniar wrote: And the number one rule is no whining.



I love having my own rules quoted back at me and you are right. No whining.
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:32 pm

Matthias wrote:
We are open to suggestions - always, but this sort of stuff needed to be discussed 6-9 months ago and requires a volunteer to champion it. 2010 is right around the corner.



I did bring it up to Hank and Bill Kim on these forums and in person. I guess they wanted to try the old way one more time. I would have hoped they would have at least mentioned it to the other council memebers to bounce the idea off of them.

Hank - As to your prediction that a balanced list would win this year, I knew you wouldn't let me down
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Postby Blackmoor » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:09 pm

I was not whining or complaining, as the first 2 posts show, I was just wondering when the best round for the “Screw the big ones” mission would be.

If the Gladiator is just for fun, why have us pay for it, and give a substantial prize to the person who does the best after playing 4 games? A winner of a non-competitive tournament should not be reward, instead just give everyone a special participation trophy.

As far as the timing of these observations goes, it always happens at this time of year because this is when people have Adepticon on their radar, and they are reading all of the rules. The Adepticon rules are not going to be a great concern to most people in June/July.

I understand what the Gladiator use to be…it use to be a tournament where you can bring everything. That meant IA, trial rules, and just about everything else you can think of, but things have changed a lot since then. We have seen new editions of the rules, GW stopped writing trial rules, and one of the biggest things is the Apocalypse rules set.

Now is had been turned from the “anything goes” tournament to a tournament+one apocalypse unit with no soft scores. I know that a lot of people are nostalgic about the old Gladiator, but this Gladiator is nothing like that, and it needs to change and evolve.

As far as how fixing it, I have no idea.

Maybe for next year I will try to talk Sparks into helping me run a 40K escalation tournament on Friday.
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Postby muwhe » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:18 pm

Well then to answer your question Blackmoor ..

Screw the big ones” mission would be.

Well when I ran the Gladiator ... I seeded that "arch-type" mission in Rd 3. IMHO if used it is no good as a round 1 or round 4 mission.
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Postby Matthias » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:36 pm

Nice edit Blackmoor - because you know exactly what my response would have been prior!

Go back and read my comments in this thread. I've been mainly in agreement with the all or nothing APOC for a year. What I am not in favor of is just another Championships event with the soft scores taken out. I was/have been serious about making Friday night all APOC/Combat Patrol and that is it - and that gets resisted. The 4000-point, 2-man event on 8' tables wasn't a joke, just a hall layout nightmare.

Fred - In that thread you are speaking DIRECTLY to the event organizers (as well as everyone else), the people that needed to know about it heard your ideas, so it was obviously discussed/in the open. Attempted division/painting people in that 'we don't really care/listen' light serves nothing.
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Postby muwhe » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:17 pm

Well it should surprise no one that 2011 planning is already under consideration and *IF* AdeptiCon moves to a true 4 day format… that will create all sorts of opportunities for alternate events, re-evaluation of the schedule and event formats.

That however is only part of the equation ... additional events require additional staff, tables, terrain and support.
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Postby jon.wolf » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:01 pm

I played hundreds of games and scenario tests for the Gladiator last year. The Reaver was too much - I certainly said so beforehand - but the point of Gladiator is playing to win, not taking something fair.

The Flyer Debacle - I love the Flyer Debacle Myth.

I like straight Codex this year, too. I'll be nearly 100% Codex, and nothing Superheavy or Gargantuan. We'll see.
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Postby Brian » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:43 am

This thread has me thinking about dropping the Warhound out of my list and replacing it with all the stuff I want to fit in my list but can't.
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Postby Spacecurves » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:08 am

Generalissimo_Fred wrote:The guy who finished 2nd with a regular sm army didn't play against the reaver. Hello.


I think this mystery "plain jane" space marine army everyone is talking about was mine, and I actually came in third, or "second loser" as Hank would say :P. I believe the guy who came in second also had a titan.


I did actually play a reaver, round one against Big Red from bell of lost souls. I didn't kill the reaver, but I did rip off its arm, shake it like a polaroid picture, and win the game.

I did indeed play a regular codex space marines army. You do NOT need a forgeworld unit to win the Gladiator, regular codex's give you all the tools you need to win. The gladiator is a truly challenging competetive tournament, and a triumph of the organizers. I agree that the Reaver was way to good last year, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

The heirphant can absolutely be killed in a few turns by a few different armies that come to mind. But remember, it is the PLAYER that wins the game, not the army list. 40k is a beautiful and deep game at least the equal of Chess in its complexity. Great players can win any tournament with any army. (although perhaps all grots might be unfeasible :P)
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:46 am

Matthias wrote:Fred - In that thread you are speaking DIRECTLY to the event organizers (as well as everyone else), the people that needed to know about it heard your ideas, so it was obviously discussed/in the open. Attempted division/painting people in that 'we don't really care/listen' light serves nothing.



Matt - I am not planting divisions. I made a suggestion about including APOC formations and assets. You responded with this

"We are open to suggestions - always, but this sort of stuff needed to be discussed 6-9 months ago and requires a volunteer to champion it. 2010 is right around the corner."

Your response led me to beleive you never heard of my suggestion before. That's all. Try it or don't try it. It might work or not, but I brought it up and you implied that I didn't bring it up in the 6-9 month time frame. Was I wrong to draw that conclusion from what you had posted initially?
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:49 am

Spacecurves wrote:
The heirphant can absolutely be killed in a few turns by a few different armies that come to mind.


Can you please enlighten me because right now the Hierophant has a 2+ / 3+ save. Unless there has been a rulechange that I haven't seen, then I would like to know your army that can drop this thing in a few turns, let alone one that theoretically can and still compete against 150+ KFF Orks.
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Postby Spacecurves » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:31 am

Generalissimo_Fred wrote:
Spacecurves wrote:
The heirphant can absolutely be killed in a few turns by a few different armies that come to mind.


Can you please enlighten me because right now the Hierophant has a 2+ / 3+ save. Unless there has been a rulechange that I haven't seen, then I would like to know your army that can drop this thing in a few turns, let alone one that theoretically can and still compete against 150+ KFF Orks.


I'm sure it will have the old 6+ invul, thats my point. If it keeps the 3+, then I'll have to agree with the doomsday profits :). Just wait until the Apoc FAQ, I'm sure reason will prevail. With the 6+ save, its fine.
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Postby moonshadow13 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:50 am

OK 1 question and then my "how to kill a heirphant in 1 round"

First does anyone have the specs on that big D-cannon eldar tank? I need point and upgrades and the like as i do not have a book on hand and was looking to see iif it was any good to buy and add to my furture armies that alow super heavies

How to kill a Heirphant in 1 round by Thomas Curzi.

1 full unit of wraith guard with farseer, 3 wraith lords with multi weapon combo (star cannon, bright lance), and 1 full seer coucil with 3 spears and Eldrad. Gosh darn thing is so big that i jsut walked forward and was in range with everything. I shot it and threw spears it suffered 5 unsaved wounds. i bum rushed it in the assuault phase and nailed it with 30 attacks (just the seer council). I got off 16 and wounded it with my 2+ needless to say it didnt make all its 2+ saves and died. I never even attacked with the wraithlords as their int was 4. Yes, call it luck, but just think about it when you say its unkillable. I just say Its "hard to kill"

I still think the best part was the look on his face when i drooped it that fast. If i remeber right he just stould there in shock for the rest of the match as i finshed off what he had left on the board. I hate the bugs.

Please no angry remarks just putting a little light on this subject as i have killed 2 in gladiator type tournaments. That ranks #1 in my top 10 for my most favorite kills. I call it "dropping the big bug" :lol: :D
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Postby Blackmoor » Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:45 am

moonshadow13 wrote:OK 1 question and then my "how to kill a heirphant in 1 round"
How to kill a Heirphant in 1 round by Thomas Curzi.

1 full unit of wraith guard with farseer, 3 wraith lords with multi weapon combo (star cannon, bright lance), and 1 full seer coucil with 3 spears and Eldrad. Gosh darn thing is so big that i jsut walked forward and was in range with everything. I shot it and threw spears it suffered 5 unsaved wounds. i bum rushed it in the assuault phase and nailed it with 30 attacks (just the seer council). I got off 16 and wounded it with my 2+ needless to say it didnt make all its 2+ saves and died. I never even attacked with the wraithlords as their int was 4. Yes, call it luck, but just think about it when you say its unkillable. I just say Its "hard to kill"
:D


I guess when you play against a bad player you can kill it, but if you are playing against someone who knows how to play you can’t.

Walking seer council? You know your assault range is 6” how were you that close? Same with the Wraithguard and their 12” shooting, he should have destroyed you before they can even be a factor.

And where was the rest of his army when this was going on?

Is that your strategy? Hope you play a bad player?
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