display base delimma

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display base delimma

Postby zulu01 » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:31 pm

A couple of years ago I remember Adepticon being full of incredible display bases for the 40k team tourney - the ork drive in, the orky aircraft carrier, the orange crush volcano, that crazy imperial wall, etc. They really made Adepticon stand out, really added to the "wow" effect of the event.

But now it seems like each year there are fewer and fewer over the top displays. Last year if it hadn't been for the Mad Max display and the way over the top ork spaceship, there wouldn't have been much to write home about. Our team talked about it with some others and I guess the general consensus is that the display base is only worth five points, so why bother. The overall wining team last year brought an old display base they'd used a couple of years before, nothing close to the really cool eldar thing they built last year, so i guess they are right.

Seems kinda sad to me.

Our team was stunned when the massive 28mm scaled ork BFG spaceship team won nothing! Same with the mad max display. The winning best army had a bookshelf from Office Depot! Huh?

I think it hurts the event when teams don't go all out on their displays. The bookshelf team did have beautifully painted models, but come on, a $29 book shelf?

I talked to one of the teams who brought a cool display last year and their attitude for this year is, "if a book shelf can win, why put any effort at all into display?" Hard to blame them.

Perhaps the problem is that there isn't a separate award category for best display.

So I am asking Adepticon leadership to separate "best army" and "best display". I love those big, over the top displays that show creativity, effort and ingenuity. You could even let the players vote on the best display / army theme so the judges don't have to add anything else to their already harried task.

What do you guys think?
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Postby LordSeverus » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:22 pm

I am actually really good friends with the mad max orc team and they did win best xenos team. If I am not mistaken a good chunk of that is a combination of paint scores, theme scores, and display scores. It may even be all of your points for that.
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Postby Redbeard » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:21 pm

I think that a cool display base is part of a cool theme, but it is hard for me to say that it should be worth a prize all by itself.

The giant ork spaceship was one part of that team's entry. It also cost over $20,000 (according to the data-sheet about it). If Best Display is a prize, what stops it from being just a reward for the team that spends the most.

Some teams don't even have the means to get a simple display to the event, due to travel issues.

I think that theme can be represented without breaking the bank. It's great that people want to make kick-ass expensive displays, but I think they need to be part of something more. Buying a prize doesn't seem right to me.
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Postby Turtle » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:21 pm

as one of the people who was on the team who won with the "bookshelf from home depot" I am pretty insulted by your post.

You have no idea the work that went into creating all the armies and theme and even the bookcase was all built and painted by us, not bought from home depot. And you have to go and demean peoples hard work, thats pretty low, just because you disagree with the outcome.

Best theme is not a representation of who had the best display board its a combination of factors concerning all things theme related, why you chose the army lists you did, paint scheme, etc... much much more goes into it than just who was able to make the biggest coolest display board.
The award was for theme and presentation, not for best army or for best display. Appearance is its own separate award.

For your reference I've included the link with how theme and appearance was judged this past year. So everybody can see its not just a display base that decides a winner for the category

http://www.adepticon.org/09rules/0940Kteam.html


how do you think the guys from across the ocean who get to fly in feel about how many points a display board should be worth. do you think they can fly in something of the size and scope of the ork ship? Also as redbeard put it the datafaq for the ship said it cost 20000 bucks, who out there can put that kind of money and effort into it. If you make display worth a bunch or give it its own award we'd have the adepticon equivilant of the yankees. Throw money at it until we win a prize, and I don't see how that would be very fair at all to the people who don't have the money or those who can't logistically bring one to adepticon because of where they live.

All that being said, there has been a lack of strong creative display bases the past year or two. I don't mean things on the scale of the ork ship, I mean things that are neat and well constructed.

I'm going to put it out there as a challenge to everybody coming, lets see some great well themed display bases this coming year. Even if the bases is only worth 5 points, take a look at the results and see how much a difference 5 points makes to a lot of different teams. After all adepticon is only as good as those attending make it. So get out there and start constructing something awesome.
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Postby jon.wolf » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:52 pm

As one of the judges, the army in that "bookshelf" was an amazing piece of work, with great conversions and details in evidence. Yes, there were more impressive display, but the army was amazing.

One of my least favorite things that happens is the attacks on winners. As a hint to the OP, denigrating the work of others rarely results in consideration of your position by TOs. In fact, if I was the TO and I'd been thinking about adding a best display prize (which sounds like a fun little prize to add) I would now have to consider whether or not it's tainted and unacceptable now.
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Postby Inquisitor_Malice » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:26 pm

Yeah - we reused a display board from a few years ago. We were pooped from all the preparation of the previous years. I wore my team out and we probably won't have any significant display board this year either. For us - time is a constraint. I would love to see us putting more time in for theme, but taking it easy is more of the focus this year for our team.
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Postby zulu01 » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:46 am

I am NOT attacking the winners! Go back and read my post. I LOVED the winning team's models - their paint job was awesome and tied in with a cool theme. (Turtle, no offense intended).

I am bemoaning the fact that display bases have been getting weaker. And they are cool - part of what made Adepticon special.

And it isn't about what you spend, it's about what you do. That Ork drive in theater from a couple of years ago was hilarious, clever fit their theme perfectly.

If the TO's want the event to have cool, over the top displays, them make a special category. If you don't, leave it as is and I suspect we will see even fewer cool boards this year too.

Those boards are essentially terrain building - which is a part of our hobby. Make a bigger deal of it and we will all benefit.
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Postby swampthing » Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:10 am

Redbeard wrote:The giant ork spaceship was one part of that team's entry. It also cost over $20,000 (according to the data-sheet about it). If Best Display is a prize, what stops it from being just a reward for the team that spends the most.


The 20k price tag on the Ork spaceship may have included the man hours that it took to build that monstrosity. materials alone would not have cost that much.

anyway, that piece was an aberration, not many people would have the desire to invest the time or money on such a project....but when they do....hell, give them their props. regardless how much $ they threw into it.

I would support a seperate category for displays. When well made, its one of the most entertaining things to see. I was totally blown away by the Ork Spaceship.
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Postby muwhe » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:26 pm

Well the issue is frankly that building a really nice display board shouldn’t be about winning a prize. It should be about putting your best effort forward. It’s a pride thing. Folks “remember” those boards and displays a lot longer than they remember who “won” something. Your post sort of proves the point … What do you remember about the Adepticon Team Tourney year after year?

I still remember that stunning painted Tau army and mushroom base from several years ago. While not ground breaking by stuff done in recent years it was at the time very nice. Not to mention the Howling Griffon Drop Pod bay… the Genestealer Infestation board., The Orc Drive in, the Race Tracks, the air craft carrier. all the work Matt Sabol and company did on the 300 and HfRO. It becomes what folks talk about.. it’s what is photographed, it’s what is put on blogs etc.. Folks walk by get all big eyed and jaw dropping about how cool it is .. and that is the point or at least should be.

Not to mention it is about getting together on a regular basis with buddies to produce something together that is cool..drink some beers, and hang out. Our team memories of working on team armies and display bases .. last a lot long than the games we played those years.
So if you’re a team wanting to make an impact .. the sure fire way is to come up with some awesome Team Tourney army display regardless if you win anything .. you’ll be talked about it .. earn the respect of your fellow gamers and hobbists .and have photos posted all over the internet of your work. What more reward do you need?
Heck Sparky’s Prom Night Eldar Warp Gate …got a lot more play honestly.. and is remember more by people .. and that is the point.

Could we do a few more “non-scored” awards. Sure and it’s always under consideration and discussion. We expect to have a few more "Spirit /Theme" sort of awards .. and "Best Display Base" might be one of them ... and I am sure we will make some sort of announcement as we certainly want to encourage those sort of displays .. but there is always the issue that we can not “reward” everyone for all the work that is done and sometimes I think that it is lost on folks that "the process of doing it " should be rewarding enough.
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Postby TheRagingRodian » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:21 pm

When it comes down to it you are judging the army used in the games, not what you carry it around in or display it on. A beautifully painted army just layed out on the table should always beat and average looking army on a big display board. That's just the way it is.

Not to say that the extra effort doesn't look cool!

Yeah you could make an argument that it is "terrain building"- which is a part of the wargaming hobby- but that isn't what the army appearance awards are judging.
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Postby Inquisitor_Malice » Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:50 pm

muwhe wrote:Heck Sparky’s Prom Night Eldar Warp Gate …got a lot more play honestly.. and is remember more by people .. and that is the point.


Yeah - my basement has all of our team displays. The Chaos Icon, Eldar Shrine of Ulthanesh, Chaos grave stone, etc. One of my best memories was watching my mom (the old lady at AdeptiCon registration) cut out the runic letters and giant Eldar symbol based on the templates I made. She was so afraid of messing up, but it was priceless working with her on that project. I now have two great pieces of "sentimental art" from each of my parents.

Going back to the original subject, I like the concept of team spirit from the previous year. Maybe a display category can be made to help encourage more of this. However, note - that the team event already has a multitude of awards. There are some people that will put in a lot of effort and not receive any award. But as Hank said - the online community tends to bring it's own point of recognition. I thought it was cool to see people getting pictures taken in front of the Eldar gate. It made me smile.
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Postby zulu01 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:42 pm

I couldn't agree with the last few posters more. Some teams will go all out becuase its just fun. But it seesm to me that fewer and fewer teams are doing it.

I was NOT suggesting that the terrain board be added to the overall scoring system, just a nice award which could be given out to teams for the effort they put in to making the event cooler for all of us. There were fewer really cool displays last year, perhaps a best display base award would be a catalyst to getting a few more teams to take the effort again.

I was suggesting it be "players choice" so that the judges didn't have any more to deal with, and so it gives you something to contribute when you are taking in all the cool work people did.

Perhaps you could get the terrain vendors to sponsor it with prize support, it being a terrain project after all?
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Re: display base delimma

Postby artificer » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:49 pm

zulu01 wrote:I think it hurts the event when teams don't go all out on their displays. The bookshelf team did have beautifully painted models, but come on, a $29 book shelf?

I talked to one of the teams who brought a cool display last year and their attitude for this year is, "if a book shelf can win, why put any effort at all into display?" Hard to blame them.

Perhaps the problem is that there isn't a separate award category for best display.

So I am asking Adepticon leadership to separate "best army" and "best display".


As another of the "Bookshelf" team members, I too have a few comments/replies.

There already is an award for 'best army' it's "Best Painted".

As far as a 'best display base' award... I just don't personally see it. The display is a vehicle for the army, not really meant to be a thing in it's own right. Sure some of the most memorable bits of the con are the bases, but the focus should stay on the armies.

The "Theme and Appearance" is for a combination of your army's look, your support materials (display, t-shirts, literature) and commitment to the THEME of your army- ie, did you just make the most broken list you could, do these armies make SENSE together?

Regarding our '09 entry;
Our stated goal in our written plan for the 09 con was to win Theme & Appearance. We started planning our THEME in June of '08 (two months after A-Con 08 ended). By early August I was already starting conversions. I easily had over 500 hours on MY 1000 points.

As turtle said, the "$29 Home Depot" bookcase was made to our dimensions (how many 20" deep bookcases do you see out there, we looked for one).

It was also picked because it was part of our Theme - "The Black Library"

Each army was pulled directly out of our favourite Chaos themed BL book. Each major character (and many minor ones) from our books were represented in our armies, in most cases by very heavily customized minis. The lists armaments were matched to units and weapons as described in the books.

It would have been a crap-ton safer and easier to just engineer the most borken list possible - double lash and a butt-load of blood crushers, but this year's army was truly a labour of love.


The army lists given in to the judges and to our opponents were customized to show the character names/units and reformated so all of our typefaces matched up. All were bound together in a book (get it, like the black library books) which incorporated a brief synopsis of each story, the cover art for each book, the army lists, and a fair bit of custom graphics.

The display boards all had custom cut brass nameplates with the book title and team member's name.

The banner was custom made for this army to match the graphics in the back of the display and in all of our literature and the t-shirts.

In addition, we gave each team we played against a copy of all four of the books we based our armies on. Each of us could (and just try and stop us :roll:) discuss at length all of the things we loved about each book and why we made the decisions we did in crafting our armies.

Did we spend 20K and assemble a massive display board - no. Was it the most impressive display, no. Did we do anything that any other team COULDN'T? no. But I would argue that you'd be hard pressed to find another team that went to the lengths we did to make a completely cohesive themed army.

edit: zulu posted while I was typing my reply. I wouldn't mind the display board being a 'players choice' type award though.
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Postby malfred » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:11 pm

You totally need a corporate sponsor for the Team Tournament.

"Brought to you by the Home Depot."
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Postby Celthulhu » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:21 pm

It may not be a problem of fewer and fewer teams makig cool display boards, so much as there are more and more teams playing now than there used to be, and it gives that impression.
Eventually the newer teams will get into the spirit too and we will see many more creative display boards.
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