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Well it’s time for my annual suggestions and comments thread

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:28 am
by Blackmoor
Well, it’s that time for the annual comments and suggestions thread.

Let me start off by saying that I am not going to say all of the great things that were done right because if I did that there would be too much to write, and I would never finish. The staff and all of the people I met were great people, and I had a lot of fun playing 11 great games of 40k. Like always, the tournaments were well run and everything for the most part was done very well.

So when I say the few things that I think could be done better, or places that could use some minor changes, I do it to try to make the Adepticon Experience(TM) even better.

I liked the hotel and the convenience of having a lot of food and shopping venues nearby. I thought it was a nice change because the last hotel felt like we were trapped inside because there was nothing else within a reasonable distance. Even the hotel's food and prices were reasonable, and I did not feel like they were bending us over and using us like the last hotel.

The only problem is the distance away from the airport(s). I heard people having to pay $50 for a taxi to the hotel (the drivers must have taken the special tourist route) but the normal cost was still around $30+ one-way. That is pretty steep. Maybe next year if the same hotel is chosen we might be able to get a shuttle and charge a small fee. A shuttle bus costs about $500 for a 5 hour rental so you could charter one for Thursday night, Friday morning and Sunday night. If you charged $15 a head you would need 34 passengers over 5 hours (7 passengers an hour) to break even. Also you can rent a 14 person van for 4 days for around $500 and have volunteers drive it. Heck, I might rent and drive one myself to earn some spending money.

The another problem I had was there no food/drink policy. I understand that they want to make some $$$ on the concessions, but I also see people wanting to save a few $$$ and the convenience of having your preferred non-alcoholic beverage with you.

There was also a problem with the lack of trash cans. I wanted to clean up after myself and throw my cans/litter/whatever away, I had to walk across the hall to the few that were by the main doors.

The Gladiator.
Let me preface my comments by saying that the gladiator is not my bag, but I can see how everyone else enjoys playing with their big resin toys. By the end of the event I kind of got into the spirit of it, and next year I want to bring something with structure points to have fun throwing around some large monstrosity.

There were a lot of complaints about the Gladiator based on what won. It looks like the Reaver Titians dominated and so a lot of people took the attitude of a few people can just buy themselves a win if you can pay $750 for a titan.

Let’s start with the Gladiator Missions
Mission #1 Night fight! I like the idea, but I am going to put it out there that all of the newer codexes all have searchlights, and all of the old ones don’t, so the newer armies are at a slight advantage.

In game #4 the secondary objective was revealed 45 minutes into the game. I liked the concept, but it was not that practical for a couple of reasons. Not all games and armies are created equal, and so if you were playing IG horde for an example, after setting up they might be on the middle of turn #1, while other games were finishing up around 45 minutes in. Another problem was the nature of the mission that was revealed meant that some armies had no way of achieving the objective (to move off of the enemy’s deployment zone). That is the type of objective you have to know about at the beginning of the game. I was thinking about how you can change this and still have the same effect is to give everyone a sealed envelope at the beginning of the round. At the start of turn 3 or 4 you open the envelope and see what the mission is. This is better than the random unplanned assault, and everyone will have the same mission revealed at the same time. Also it has some dramatic elements with it because it would be like you are receiving your mission orders.

The Gladiator is known for having missions that made it hard for particular builds to do well. This is great because it hurts the one trick pony armies that can’t adapt, and are not flexible.
Looking over the missions there were several missions that hurt shooting armies, but none that I can see that really hurt assault armies. In 5th edition assault armies are king, and there should have a few missions that slowed them down. There were missions in the past where your scattered 2x normal etc, and I would have like to see missions where the power builds like Nob bikers, 5 land raiders and Bloodcrushers slowed down a bit.

The Gladiator also did not have any “screw the big ones” missions. I was a bit surprised by this because that is a Gladiator staple. If anything, their needs to be more of these. 40k has seen a huge de-powering of armies that can handle the monstrous stuff. 5th edition brought us everything from weakened powerfists, and vehicle damage charts that make killing vehicles that much harder. Not to mention that codexes in general have been powered down with heavy weapons. Long gone are 5 man las-plas squads and tank hunting auto-cannons.

It is late now, and I will pick it up tomorrow…

Re: Well it’s time for my annual suggestions and comments th

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:39 am
by Matthias
Blackmoor wrote:The only problem is the distance away from the airport(s).

We've talked about shuttles/arranging rides. It is a possibility for sure. The venue isn't going to get much better, so if we can alleviate that issue I think we golden.

Blackmoor wrote:The another problem I had was there no food/drink policy.

This most likely isn't going to change. The hotel was extremely accommodating to the convention this year - it's the one thing they asked for and honestly it is pretty standard policy for hotels. It's extra tough since there is a Target right across the street...

Blackmoor wrote:There was also a problem with the lack of trash cans.

Agreed and easily remedied next year. We also need to better organize the end of the night hall clean-up/reset (that is get more hands). The Westin left that on us (and rightfully so - we are pigs!) where in the past the Marriott had staff that would help straighten up the hall.[/quote]

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:48 am
by RichN
Did prior hotels do anything more than empty the trash? I remember most of the over night clean up being done by Dave, Ken and other volunteers. What we may be missing is a dedicated group of terrain staff like we had in past years.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:57 am
by Generalissimo_Fred
The hotel was the best we've had. Everything about it was great. Location, parking, in and out, food. I expect the hotel to not allow food and drink or else there would be full kegs under some of those display bases.

More garbage cans is a good idea.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:57 am
by Matthias
The Marriott at least has night staff that cleaned up the trash in the hall (although we usually took the initiative there).

Dave Cresswell and crew did a fine job resetting the tables - but he is stretched pretty thing playing/running events all day also. In the past the hall team was pretty much dedicated to the hall.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:08 am
by JonnyP
I ran the Blood Bowl event. The hotel is awesome. Food and drink was not too pricy. They eventually got us our garbage can. We got our own room....can't beat that. The employees of the hotel were very accommodating whenever I asked for anything.

My only two suggestions for Adepticon are:

1. A bit better communication on the event times for the organizers. Had I known the awards for all events was late on saturday I would have maybe started blood bowl later....a lot of people didn't come back for awards unfortunately. Also my rules pack had my event times but the Adepticon list had some different times. People got confused.

2. Anyone who pre-registered should automatically get all models and other swag in their goodie bag. If pre-reg needs to be closed earlier to allow additional shipping time, then so be it. But a pre-reg should be guaranteed their stuff no matter what time they show up to Adepticon. Not everyone can get there on Friday.

Thats it though. Again the venue was amazing. Everyone involved with Adepticon was very pleasant and easy to deal with. They helped us out in many ways and the Blood Bowl community thanks you!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:24 am
by Matthias
JonnyP wrote: Anyone who pre-registered should automatically get all models and other swag in their goodie bag. If pre-reg needs to be closed earlier to allow additional shipping time, then so be it. But a pre-reg should be guaranteed their stuff no matter what time they show up to Adepticon. Not everyone can get there on Friday.

This is the first year we have run into this problem. I would have never expected to see 30% growth like we did in a recession year. In fact I think we really thought we would see a small decline give the economic situation, travel costs and everything.

I already brought up the pre-registration cap idea Sunday night - it's something we are going to look at for sure. Ideally for us we want nothing left at the end of Sunday - storing 500+ leftover books is not fun, but guessing that number perfectly is impossible. We'll figure something out.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:32 am
by JonnyP
Totally understandable Matt. Thanks for your help over the weekend getting things going for me.

I should also note that I appreciate the extra effort from Rich to personally do whatever he could to make my participants happy. I can say that every one of my players walked away happy on Sunday night.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:50 am
by shrub34
Overall I loved the location.

I'm with Fred and think that the food policy is just fine. If you want to bring outside food and drink, then we will probably end back up with paying for parking and needing to either eat in the hotel at high cost or order food to be delivered again.

I agree that more trash cans were definitely needed, but in addition we as players need to clean up after ourselves better.

One thing I would recommend for setup and cleanup is that only those helping are allowed in the hall(s). People looking at things and standing around made it more difficult to get everything correctly setup/tore down. I do thank the WAB players for helping to pack up and clean up the main hall.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:59 am
by SmokWawelski
Location, venue (food pricing) and parking was great. It was also close to BBunker - another plus. And we did not have to delegate Fantasy guys to a tent - great plus. I hope we can be back next year!

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:05 pm
by Ed
This is probably way out in left field, but has anyone considered switching the team tournament back to 5 rounds split between saturday and sunday? I know it would mean that people couldn't do the classic tournament on Sunday, and that will rain on some parades. But the 7am - midnight marathon is kinda nuts. I appreciate the presentation at the end and the long awards ceremony, but I wanted to blow my head off.

I just remember back when it was five rounds over 2 days. You got your first three games in, got a nice night of sleep, then came back for the last two rounds on sunday.

Anyway, just me rambling.


PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:32 pm
by BostonNazgul
The another problem I had was there no food/drink policy. I understand that they want to make some $$$ on the concessions, but I also see people wanting to save a few $$$ and the convenience of having your preferred non-alcoholic beverage with you

This comes off an absolute strict liability issue with the hotel. I am sure it was simply easier to group all outside food and beverage togethor as opposed to the actual problem of outside alcohol. if the worst case senario of an accident occuring, the can of worms that would/could be opened up on the hotel would be bigger than those "cobra" templates people talk about.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:35 pm
by Blackmoor
Team Tournament

This is my favorite event, and this year it did not disappoint. My few suggestions:

IMO you should not let demons summon off of Chaos Space Marine Icons. I know that they kind of work together from a fluff stand point, but the codexes should be independent, and a limiting factor of the demon codex should not be overridden. I understand that this is the first year of the demon codex, so it was obviously an oversight.

The quiz was rough. I was wondering if you could post the answers to the 2 quizzes on the website?

The command counters taking over for the mulligans were interesting. You might want to still think about keeping the mulligans.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:45 pm
by Generalissimo_Fred
I would say that since the Daemon codex is out, there should be no mulligans. It almost insures the daemon player of getting their primary wave each game if it is a 3+ with a reroll. That one point for reroll is greatly offset by the enhanced possibility of gaining full battle points by getting the primary wave in.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2009 12:58 pm
by Blackmoor
The invitational/Championships

My biggest problem was the armies that were represented. The championship armies looked like gladiator armies without the forgeworld. It was a sea of Orks, Demons, and Chaos. *yawn*I think I saw 2 Space Marines, 1-2 Nids, 2 Eldar and 1 Necron army, and the rest were the toughest lists you can find. Boy what fun! I ended up taking a fun and fluffy army for a change and was clubbed like a baby seal by nob bikers for 0 points, so I was happy to face another army that was not that strong, but I was wrong and ended up against a 2 demon prince list with dual lashes. After that loss I get a nice and fluffy list of Abaddon and only one lash. From listening to my friends at the Invitational the lists there were not much better.

What happened to all of the other armies? I am going out on a limb here and say that perhaps Adepticon should think about some kind of comp for Sundays 40k games. I know that comp is a 4 letter word in the Midwest, but with GW inability to write a decent codex (or at least change some things after 5th edition makes some units incredibly strong) you might want to at least put it on the table as an idea. Pretty soon Sunday will just be dominated by a handful of lists of Orks, Blood Crushers, Land Raiders, and Lashes of Submission. I know I like variety and to play a lot of different armies, and Sunday should be the place for that.

The Missions
Mission 1 was good. I like that the armies that try to have very few kill points give up points by having no elite/fast attack/heavy support give up some VPs.

Mission 2. I did not like that tactical bonuses and here is why: You get bonus points for having your most expensive HQ, and most expensive unit left alive. The problem is that if you have multiple HQs and Units that cost the same points, one left alive will fulfill the requirement and the owning player will receive the tactical bonuses. IMO a player should not get rewarded for taking redundant units at the same points costs. Just the opposite, you should be penalized for this, and if any of the most expensive units die, you do not get the points.