Tabling Debate

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Should a player get all the points from a mission if they tabled their opponent

Yes, I think when you table someone you get full points
25
45%
No, Players should only get the points when they have satisfied the mission requirements
30
55%
 
Total votes : 55

Postby incarna » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:40 pm

Janthkin wrote:
incarna wrote:The answer is; after looking over the gladiator primer scenarios, no, this is not possible because no scenario has kill points as its primary objective. It would be certainly possible for a player who gets tabled to win the secondary objective in the first scenario in having scored more kill points than his opponent (a small chaos space marine army getting tabled by a huge un-mounted guard army for example) and earn for himself 10 match points but his opponent would still beat him through having achieved the primary and, potentially, tertiary objectives.

Interestingly, it is ENTIRELY possible to win all three of Mission 1's objectives, while still getting tabled, provided your army is low on KPs.

Although this probably isn’t the correct forum for this but I might point out that a space marine or chaos space marine player could make things nearly impossible for their opponent by moving three Land Raiders into a triangular position over the center objective in the gladiator mission 1, deploy his forces inside the triangle, and win the game without ever firing a shot. Similar results could be achieved by elder armies containing 3 or more skimmers with holo fields or even a single monolith possessing a 6” diameter square hovering over the objective and enemy models being unable to pass within 1” of the monolith hull.

I don’t think mission 1 has problem with kill points, I think its primary objective needs to be re-thought… but I will not be participating in the gladiator tournament so I’m not sure how significant my input is on the matter.
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Postby Janthkin » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:08 pm

incarna wrote:
Janthkin wrote:
incarna wrote:The answer is; after looking over the gladiator primer scenarios, no, this is not possible because no scenario has kill points as its primary objective. It would be certainly possible for a player who gets tabled to win the secondary objective in the first scenario in having scored more kill points than his opponent (a small chaos space marine army getting tabled by a huge un-mounted guard army for example) and earn for himself 10 match points but his opponent would still beat him through having achieved the primary and, potentially, tertiary objectives.

Interestingly, it is ENTIRELY possible to win all three of Mission 1's objectives, while still getting tabled, provided your army is low on KPs.

Although this probably isn’t the correct forum for this but I might point out that a space marine or chaos space marine player could make things nearly impossible for their opponent by moving three Land Raiders into a triangular position over the center objective in the gladiator mission 1, deploy his forces inside the triangle, and win the game without ever firing a shot. Similar results could be achieved by elder armies containing 3 or more skimmers with holo fields or even a single monolith possessing a 6” diameter square hovering over the objective and enemy models being unable to pass within 1” of the monolith hull.

I don’t think mission 1 has problem with kill points, I think its primary objective needs to be re-thought… but I will not be participating in the gladiator tournament so I’m not sure how significant my input is on the matter.

Triangle of Land Raiders, meet D-weapons. D-weapons, meet Land Raiders.

;)

The Gladiator, as Centurian99 notes above, intentionally includes various mission objectives which will be harder for certain builds to complete. This is why balanced forces tend to do better overall. That said, you do have to at least consider what you'll do in the face of, say, a Warhound's turbolasers.
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Postby muwhe » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:59 pm

First rule of the Gladiator - No Whining.



The Gladiator is definitely not a "fair" tournament. It encourages whacky builds, and sometimes either in the matchup or scenario you may find you brought a knife to a gun fight. Other times your the gun. The guys that win this .. find a way to win even in games or scenarios they should lose.. it's all bravado ..
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Postby Ckilleen » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:01 am

Inquisitor_Malice wrote:I could see a permutation:

1. Tabling opponents = max points for objectives that are kill point related.
2. For other objectives (quarters, objective markers, deployment zones, etc), play the game until it ends.

This way you eliminate:

1. An opponent tabling a low kill point army and still losing the game.
2. An opponent who has no units that can take objectives being able to win max points.

I understand that tabling an opponent is hard. However, it still seems very funny that for example, the only troops that could safely shut down the ticking time bomb of galatic doom were killed and yet a victory can be claimed because the enemy was destroyed.


Private - "But sir, we don't know how to safely shut off the device without a complete meltdown. Our capital planet for the system is going be destroyed in about 5 minutes with us on it."

Captain - "That's not the point private. We won by tabling our opponent. Don't you understand what a true victory is. Huzzah!!! Huzzah!!!"

Private - sigh.

<BOOM>

The End


I really like that idea seems to work the best. It is what I was going to say and it's how all the locals around me play and works good. I myself have been tabled but the game was still a draw because I killed all of his scoring units so he couldn't get any objectives.
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Postby Infernoed » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:27 am

Ok we have 3 pages of this can we get a ruling on how this will be at the touney so we can plan ahead. IE might have to paint different units. lol
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Postby Centurian99 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:34 am

I'll talk it over with the other tourney organizers
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just saying, but I'm saying

Postby Chubs » Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:36 am

The table question comes up a lot... my two cents. If you table, you win primary objective no mater what it is. It could be kill points, objectives, HQ kill (well, either player could do that) , but if you table then enemy you win it, just like the rule book says you do. But that doesn't mean your get 2nd and 3rd opbjectives and bonus points. Play the game out with the other player not doing anything and see if the remaining player can get teh points - don't just hand them over fully

Fluff filler
Ultramarines 1st company was successful in thier stall tactic against the nid to allow the rest of the chapter to rally - yeah they got tabled, but they won the war. Just saying
The handsome face of 2T1C
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Postby Matthias » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:38 am

This might not be the final copy, but Wipeouts at AdeptiCon will be handled in this manner:

Code: Select all
A 'Wipeout!' at AdeptiCon immediately occurs when one side has had all of its models destroyed and there is no chance that any of their models will return to play later (such as with St. Celestine, Gaunts that are 'Without Number', etc). When this happens, the game ends immediately.

Unless specified otherwise in the mission rules, a side which achieves a 'Wipeout!' automatically gets a maximum score for that game, including all mission objectives, bonus points, etc. Conversely, unless specified otherwise in the mission rules, a side which suffers a 'Wipeout!' still retains any points they managed to achieve during the game.


That said, each tournament may have exceptions on some missions (e.g. a Secondary or Tertiary objective that could still end in a draw due to all eligible units on both sides being destroyed), so be sure to read each mission carefully. For the 40K Team Tournament, we have included a Wipeout! section that fully explains the results of a Wipeout if there are exceptions.
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Postby BrentS » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:54 am

Do you know if this Wipeout rule will be carried over to all non-40K events as well? Specifically thinking about LOTR.
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Postby Matthias » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:15 pm

The above is 40K only.
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awesome

Postby Spacecurves » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:39 pm

Sounds great, I think this is a good ruling that goes a long way toward giving higher KP armies a chance at victory.
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