Storm the Easterling Camp! Death to the Numenorians!

You just finished the best game of your life and you have to let the world know just how cool it was! Post your report here with all the glorious details.

Postby Gartl » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:27 pm

It's also never in any great danger of losing any battle unless I make some stupid mistake.


I will respectfully disagree with you here. As far I as have seen you lose as often with this force as win with it. You made no errors playing against my Wood Elves and lost. You lost to Steve, but apparently made some errors. In either case, you are far from a beginner and are having a difficult time mastering this force. So I would avoid claiming this is a beginner force until such a time as a player of your caliber can win most of his games with it.

On the other hand, I agree that this army is best suited for a Meeting Engagement type of battle which is, imho, your weakest scenario. So I can see you losing more games with this army.

That said, I can see it as boring for you to play as it is a completely infantry based army and as I have said you are definately a manuevering type of general. However, you do enjoy you Dwarf Rangers which are also a completely infatntry based army, so what is the difference?


This is where Tim tried and yet ceases again to be a "power-gamer". I can understand why you could get bored with a one-trick pony army. Its obvious that althought you enjoy winning games, you like playing armies more than winning! Kudos to you.


I think your kudos are premature here. Tim does far better with is Dwarf Rangers than he has done with this force. I think he is switching to a force he expects to do better with at LA and Vegas. Not the noble cause you think it is :-)
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
User avatar
Gartl
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:31 am

Postby The Mouth of Sauron » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:14 pm

Gartl wrote:That said, I can see it as boring for you to play as it is a completely infantry based army and as I have said you are definately a manuevering type of general. However, you do enjoy you Dwarf Rangers which are also a completely infatntry based army, so what is the difference?
Bowfire makes the Dwarf Rangers and the Haradrim Watchers more challenging as my opponent has to react to me. Instead of my cavalry forcing an opponent to react to my maneuvers, I can use accurate archery to control where my opponent moves. Same principle, but with two vastly different tools. There are more tactical decisions to be made and these forces are a lot softer in close combat which makes them more challenging to play than the Black Numenoreans.

Gartl wrote:
This is where Tim tried and yet ceases again to be a "power-gamer". I can understand why you could get bored with a one-trick pony army. Its obvious that althought you enjoy winning games, you like playing armies more than winning! Kudos to you.


I think your kudos are premature here. Tim does far better with his Dwarf Rangers than he has done with this force. I think he is switching to a force he expects to do better with at LA and Vegas. Not the noble cause you think it is :-)
I'm considering the spiders, the Khandish Mercenaries, a Haradrim Mumak, the Watchers (need to be painted) and a five model hero force of Gulavhar and four spider queens for Games Day. Most are already painted and based so they only need touchups.

For the Las Vegas GT I am looking at the Dwarven Rangers, The Watchers of Karna, maybe the Black Numenoreans just because they are painted or maybe the spiders. I'm not going to bring a totally weak force to a GT where I'm spending lots of money to play, but I did briefly consider a five Troll force for Las Vegas. ;)
The Mouth of Sauron
 

Postby Gartl » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:31 pm

Bowfire makes the Dwarf Rangers and the Haradrim Watchers more challenging as my opponent has to react to me.


Your original BN army had 20 archers.

these forces are a lot softer in close combat which makes them more challenging to play than the Black Numenoreans.


They also have advantages the BN army doesn't; manueverability, throwing weapons, abilty to move through rough terrain, etc... I wouldn't say they are more challenging, they are simply different. My WE have the lowest defense in the game, they are not that challenging to play. Every army has advantages to offset diadvantages. I think the BN are slightly underpriced, so they probably do give a player an advantage, but you have proved you can still lose with them :-)


but I did briefly consider a five Troll force for Las Vegas.


That would have been a force that you would have lost with, so Brent's kudos would have been well deserved.
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
User avatar
Gartl
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:31 am

Postby The Mouth of Sauron » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:37 pm

Gartl wrote:Your original BN army had 20 archers.
That makes them look good on paper, but they don't work out so great in practice.

Gartl wrote:They also have advantages the BN army doesn't; manueverability, throwing weapons, abilty to move through rough terrain, etc... I wouldn't say they are more challenging, they are simply different. My WE have the lowest defense in the game, they are not that challenging to play. Every army has advantages to offset diadvantages. I think the BN are slightly underpriced, so they probably do give a player an advantage, but you have proved you can still lose with them :-)
I can lose with any force. You can stop calling me a loser and then lauding my Best LOTR player in the same breath. Either I'm the best or I'm not. It's actually getting really annoying.

Gartl wrote:
but I did briefly consider a five Troll force for Las Vegas.
That would have been a force that you would have lost with, so Brent's kudos would have been well deserved.
I know, that's why it'll be regulated to in store gaming just so I can get a feel for the force when I want a real challenge. It is not very competitive given their slow speed and high cost.

I've also considered Saruman the multicoloured, my two Isengard Trolls and some Uruk-hai just for fun. Can you kill Saruman would be the theme of that force as he traveled from Isengard to the Dunlending encampments with his bodyguard.
The Mouth of Sauron
 

Postby Gartl » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:42 pm

You can stop calling me a loser and then lauding my Best LOTR player in the same breath. Either I'm the best or I'm not. It's actually getting really annoying.


I've never said you were the best, I said you are "one of the best". Big difference ;-)

You seem to have some of the guys on this forum believing that you are the best though :-)
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
User avatar
Gartl
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:31 am

Postby BaronDeSade » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:05 pm

Well, if I can smash Tim's Black Numenorians, then I must be one of the best of the best! :wink:

In order for Gary to start being annoying, wouldn't he first have to stop at some point? :P

I do agree that the BNs are tedious, though. With only a few models available, and GW flaking out on making the catapult, it wouldn't be much different from me making an army of Easterling Swordsmen backed up by an Orc catapult, and that would be fairly boring.

I don't agree that high model count is more important to the BN army than combined arms ability. BNs are very hard to cut down to break point, and even when they get there, they'll hold better than most troops. If one can't kill the enemy, though, high defense is pointless.

I do agree that the Orc Trackers are shiznit. Tim has quite a few Orc trackers on Wargs, though, which would give much more combined armsyness by adding mounted archers, knockdown, S4, and such.

I was really looking forward to the release of the BNs when I first read LoME, but I have been pretty disappointed by the result. The models are too OTT for me, too cheap for what they do (making them less special and interesting) and greatly lack options. I do think that Minas Morgul can make some of the most interesting armies in the Mordor book, but I don't think that BNs can.

Cheers,

BdS
User avatar
BaronDeSade
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:22 am

Postby Gartl » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:15 pm

Well, if I can smash Tim's Black Numenorians, then I must be one of the best of the best!


That's You Steve :-)

In order for Gary to start being annoying, wouldn't he first have to stop at some point?


That is actually a really good point!

Now go practice some more so you can play with the big boys :-P
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
User avatar
Gartl
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:31 am

Postby febber » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:13 pm

The Mouth of Sauron wrote:The Black Numeoreans are deathly boring to play and will not be taking them to a GT or Games Day event as a result. Every battle is fought the same way, there are no viable tactical alternatives since they are very uni-dimensional. The Morgul Knights don't improve things any, since you can't get enough of them to matter.


It's boring and one-dimensional because of your army build. Black Numenorians are elites, designed to be the heavy hitters or guard units in a Morgul force. Same thing with DM's Adepticon army, all Morannon orcs. I got bored with Isengard for the same reason. What about a little variety? Dont have to have all elites to have a good force. Put some of these suckers in a diverse Mordor army and you get the benefit of their effectiveness, have a larger army, and a choice of approaches.

I generally prefer armies with a mix of troops types and nationalities, which is the way armies were historically until the rise of nation-states in the 17th-18th centuries.

The list Tim created and I tweaked for Phoenix was a good example of what I am talking about. A lot of different types of troops, each good at various things, which was not only fun to play but looked like a real army would, with levies from many places.

Let me assure you that you will see BN in an army from me at some point in the future, but they wont be even half of the force. And the army will be very nasty.
All-time LOTR Grand/National Tournament Record: 92-18-45 (W-L-D), 63 major victories
21 awards in 35 events inc. 5x Best Overall; 2x 2nd Overall (w/o Best General); 9x Best General
2007 National Circuit Champion
2008 National Circuit Champion
User avatar
febber
 
Posts: 1269
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Postby Gartl » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:26 am

I generally prefer armies with a mix of troops types and nationalities


Tim and I take a different approach, we tend to play only one army without allies. With evil it is harder to do, but it is still something we lean towards. However, it is probably less effective the way we do it.
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
User avatar
Gartl
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:31 am

Postby The Mouth of Sauron » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:27 am

Nevermind that I think orcs are crap. Even the models aren't all that great. The Morannon Orcs are an improvement in plastic casting so I like them.

Morannon Orcs were the assault force that Gothmog took across the river to break the deadlock in the movie. I have to look up their involvement form the book as I don't recall that section very clearly. There are times when they can and should be the main force.
The Mouth of Sauron
 

Postby Drunken Mick » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:30 am

febber wrote:
The Mouth of Sauron wrote:The Black Numeoreans are deathly boring to play and will not be taking them to a GT or Games Day event as a result. Every battle is fought the same way, there are no viable tactical alternatives since they are very uni-dimensional. The Morgul Knights don't improve things any, since you can't get enough of them to matter.


It's boring and one-dimensional because of your army build. Black Numenorians are elites, designed to be the heavy hitters or guard units in a Morgul force. Same thing with DM's Adepticon army, all Morannon orcs. I got bored with Isengard for the same reason. What about a little variety? Dont have to have all elites to have a good force. Put some of these suckers in a diverse Mordor army and you get the benefit of their effectiveness, have a larger army, and a choice of approaches.

I generally prefer armies with a mix of troops types and nationalities, which is the way armies were historically until the rise of nation-states in the 17th-18th centuries.

The list Tim created and I tweaked for Phoenix was a good example of what I am talking about. A lot of different types of troops, each good at various things, which was not only fun to play but looked like a real army would, with levies from many places.

Let me assure you that you will see BN in an army from me at some point in the future, but they wont be even half of the force. And the army will be very nasty.


To wit our Acon army was only 60% morannon :P. We had mordor uruks and trackers too LOL.

My MM force isn't straight BN's. Maybe that's why it doesn't bore the $#!T out of me. We'll see after I get a couple games in tomorrow night. Bout 30% painted and still fiddling with the army list. Of course I'll be fiddling with it until the week hell maybe even day before the GT.
Lord of the Drink

Eat that Flatly!
Drunken Mick
 
Posts: 1814
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:53 am
Location: Chicago SW Burbs

Postby The Mouth of Sauron » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:48 am

febber wrote:Let me assure you that you will see BN in an army from me at some point in the future, but they wont be even half of the force. And the army will be very nasty.
Nah it can't be that bad, you'll be running it. ;)
The Mouth of Sauron
 

Postby BaronDeSade » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:34 am

Ahem, my Easterling army doesn't have any allies. :D

(absently polishes GT trophy) What were you saying about playing with the big boys? :P

Anyhow, I would certainly prefer to play a combined-arms Minas Morgul army than a BN horde. Sadly, though, when I looked at the army list, MM Orc Trackers cannot be mounted.

BdS
User avatar
BaronDeSade
 
Posts: 334
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:22 am

Postby Drunken Mick » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:38 am

If they could be mounted I'd considered converting some. They can't so, oh well. I'm still toying with final army config. Pretty sure it'll be 3 heroes, archers, BN's and some combination of morannon, spectres, stalkers.
Lord of the Drink

Eat that Flatly!
Drunken Mick
 
Posts: 1814
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:53 am
Location: Chicago SW Burbs

Postby The Mouth of Sauron » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:40 am

Drunken Mick wrote:If they could be mounted I'd considered converting some. They can't so, oh well. I'm still toying with final army config. Pretty sure it'll be 3 heroes, archers, BN's and some combination of morannon, spectres, stalkers.
Barad-dur and Black Gate trackers can be mounted. My preferred Mordor force is actually Barad-dur.
The Mouth of Sauron
 

PreviousNext

Return to Battle Reports (LotR)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron