Points Match!

Post and review Lord of the Rings army lists.

What Points Bracket are you playing?

500
0
No votes
600
12
86%
700
2
14%
750
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 14

Points Match!

Postby JLeong » Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:43 am

Hey all-- what points bracket are/will you be designing your lists for?

My first few lists have been at 500 (call me old hat, but I heart "points match" and instinct tells me to start there). I am reasonably happy with the lists I'm coming up with. They're small for sure: my Faramir-led Osgiliath force is turning out to be the largest so far at 39 models, with my High Elves as well as Dol Amroth both registering at 32 models.

I'm assuming everyone is looking at 600, as that has become the standard recently. My lists moving from 500 to 600 seem to be making few leaps in terms of numbers. The constraints of the hero requirement leave some forces, namely Rivendell and Fiefdoms, upgrading heroes and basic troops.

When designing my Osgiliath list, I found that some of these character-driven upgrades come in handy in these kinds of situations.

What are you all doing? 600? What's this talk of 700?
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Postby Smeagol » Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:20 pm

Six hundred, but I also look at seven hundred due to the UK GT/ USGT standard point value. I think 750 might be a better number for the forces of Good which are in a world of hurt at the other point values.
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Postby prion2001 » Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:47 pm

I'm doing 600 point lists, again as this has become standard. I worry about bigger points for two reasons. 1) makes it easier to field big characters and I want to see if this is necessary to make good more balanced against the cheaper evil hero hordes and 2) from a tournament round viewpoint, how long will 700+ games take and can tournaments accomodate. So, for now, I like 600.

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Postby Lordgoober » Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:46 pm

actually, one of the interesting topics of discussion that we had at the bunker on Saturday (me, Tim Cornstubble and someone I can't remember on the top of my head) was this.

600 point lists. One model in your list gets a 100 point cost reduction with a minimum cost of 0. This was talked about because of the new gribblies for Evil that have come out with these new books and to have the need for Good to have the big heroes in to counter them. In particular the Watcher in the Water and the new Mini-Muhak.
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Re:

Postby BrentS » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:02 am

Lordgoober wrote:600 point lists. One model in your list gets a 100 point cost reduction with a minimum cost of 0. This was talked about because of the new gribblies for Evil that have come out with these new books and to have the need for Good to have the big heroes in to counter them. In particular the Watcher in the Water and the new Mini-Muhak.


I dont' understand what you are trying to say here...



Anyway, I'm starting to build lists at the 600 pt still. So far, I'm still liking the options that are available at 600pts.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby Lordgoober » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:40 am

Basically the thought he had was to try to get people to use bigger pointed models without increasing the potential for people to just make a bigger horde using cheaper heroes.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby Smeagol » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:16 am

Lordgoober wrote:Basically the thought he had was to try to get people to use bigger pointed models without increasing the potential for people to just make a bigger horde using cheaper heroes.

That's called cheating.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby jlong05 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:54 am

The best way to do this is to institute a model max(which the new rules eliminated from LoME). This would help reign in the horde-ish armies and provide a more level playing field for the good players running higher point costed figures.

Personally I liked the idea someone said of using a basic idea of max model count being 1 model for every 10 points of game play. ie, a standard 600 point game would have a 60 model max, and a 350pt tournament(such as singles adepticon) would be 35. This would keep a better 'warband' style to the army planning as well I think. This however would be a total house-rule change that all the TOs would need to discuss and aree upon since GW has made no indication of army size limits under the new rules.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby EricA » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:28 pm

Personally I liked the idea someone said of using a basic idea of max model count being 1 model for every 10 points of game play. ie, a standard 600 point game would have a 60 model max, and a 350pt tournament(such as singles adepticon) would be 35. This would keep a better 'warband' style to the army planning as well I think. This however would be a total house-rule change that all the TOs would need to discuss and aree upon since GW has made no indication of army size limits under the new rules.


I actually like that idea, and I didnt even realize they had gotten rid of the model restriction. At 600 pts my arnor/hobbit list was only 61 models and that was with 36 4pt models lol. It seems even "horde" armies like the haradrim only reach around 60 at 600pts due to the extra heroes.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby Smeagol » Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:41 pm

A 60 model Haradrim horde is also using the cheapest warriors as well. While that isn't a bad thing since half of them can be bow armed, it does mean they aren't as good in close combat. Plus you're typically using much smaller heroes which helps with Might, but they aren't powerhouses either.

The problem is that most Good forces still can't get more than 40 models. Gondor can manage to go toe to toe with Harad and the like only because they have cheap heroes. Rohan infantry probably can as well, though I haven't had a chance to crunch numbers yet.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby ChrisLS » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:34 pm

I've been a proponent of the 1:10 models to points ratio for ages. I'm definitely planning on instituting that as a house rule for Da Grand Waaagh. Of course, it's mostly aimed at Hobbits and Goblins at this point, since not many others can hit that cap.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby EricA » Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:52 pm

Well from the standpoint of hobbits, the only warband leaders are merry, pippin, frodo, sam, and paladin so the "model cap" for them is 65 at 525 with all upgrades. Then maggot, fatty, and lobelia as independent heroes, which would put you at 590 and 71 models, is the absolute max for a hobbit contingent. I doubt anyone would really take that though so I wouldnt bee too worried about the model count from them. Goblins on the other hand, they will start to swarm in numbers like they did when the fellowship saw them in the mines....
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Re: Points Match!

Postby JLeong » Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:00 pm

I'd really like to see what kinds of armies actually take to the field before we start talking house-rules.

Smeagol is right in saying it can be difficult for Good Armies at 600pts to break 40 models. The Gondor and Arnor lists I've been whipping up hit around 48 models, and The Galadhrim list I wrote sits right at 40. Anything with an Imrahil-sized hero in it seems to struggle moving past 39.
At the same time, an Easterling list will have similar numbers, and a Mordor Orc Horde will come in around 65 models. Once Morannon orcs start eating up some of those points, the numbers seem to go down.

I'd like to see what effect the bigger heroes have in actual games. Given the new deployment scheme, I wonder if their presence will help to counteract the numbers of evil hordes naturally.
Just a thought though.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby ChrisLS » Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:14 am

Here was the Moria list I cranked up - still valid.

    Moria

    Warband 1:
    Durburz
    4x Goblin w/shield
    4x Goblin w/spear
    4x Goblin w/bow

    Warband 2:
    Goblin shaman
    3x Goblin w/shield
    2x Goblin w/spear
    2x Goblin w/bow

    Warband 3-6:
    Goblin captain w/shield
    4x Goblin w/shield
    4x Goblin w/spear
    4x Goblin w/bow

    Points: 600
    Models: 73

That will be much harder to deal with using big hero Good armies.
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Re: Points Match!

Postby Smeagol » Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:14 pm

That force doesn't scare me. It's generic goblins after all. Plus in some scenarios I can lose my entire force and still win on victory points. That goblin force has a huge number of easy victory points that a small elite force can earn out of it before breaking. Once brokempn scenarios start to end.

Really people stop with the wild conspiracy theories and play some games. Hell I'm thinking of using a four model warband/force just to see if I can win games with them.
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