Hobbits/Arnor with the new rules.....

Post and review Lord of the Rings army lists.

Hobbits/Arnor with the new rules.....

Postby EricA » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:24 pm

Our dad was able to pick up copies of the new books today so I instinctively looked at the hobbits and arnor lists. The hobbits have got a couple interesting bonuses. 1) Merry can give militia +1 str for a point, 2) Pippin can give the archers F3 for a point. 3) Only hobbit heroes, all the dunedain, aragorn, and gandalf are not. 4) the archers have bows, not shortbows. For arnor, they added in the three hunters Aragorn. Halbarad, Aragorn, and Arathorn still dont count as dunedain but whatever. So, I put on a sadistic grin and created a hobbit arnor list XD

The Shire

Meriadoc w/ shield
12x Hobbit militia w/ +1 str

Perigrin
12x Hobbit Archers

Paladin Took
10x Hobbit Militia w/ +1 str
2x Hobbit Militia

Arnor

Ranger of the North

Halbarad
11x Rangers of Arnor w/ spear
1x Warrior of Arnor w/ horn

Captain of Arnor w/ shield
12x Warriors of Arnor

600 points
66 Models
25 bows
27(39) Stones
9 Might

Also note on the bow limit, it is now rounded up, not down. So if you have like 11 models, 4 of them could have bows from what I understand.
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Postby Slammers77 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:41 pm

Except it is an illegal list. You need to have 1 ranger of the north or dunedin for every 4 ranger models. The bow limit is based on force and the rangers are a different force.

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Postby EricA » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:57 pm

From what I read about the grey company section was that if I took all arnor as part of a force/ally then I can have 4 rangers for every ranger of the north. unless I misread that I think I can still have the other heroes and warriors in the list, just I can have more rangers if I take dunedain/RotN. So a captain with 12 warriors, halbarad with a warrior then 7 rangers tagging along with the warriors. Then 4 rangers of arnor for the dunedain.
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Postby jlong05 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:05 pm

Eric is correct. The 4 to 1 ratio is for a grey company army only(allowing for a more than 1/3 bow limit). Since he isn't making a GC allied force and maintains a 1/3 bow limit ratio he should be legal.
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Postby ChrisLS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:49 pm

Hmmmm... I'm not parsing the rule that way. It says:

You may opt to take a Grey Company force. If you do so, your force (or an allied contingent in your force) that contains only models from the Arnor list can take up to 4 Rangers of Arnor for each Ranger of the North or Dunedain it contains. It can do so even if this would take it above the normal bow limit.


Here is how I parse this:

- Are you taking a Grey Company force?
No: 1/3 bow rule applies as normal.
Yes: You can take up to 4 Rangers of Arnor for each RotN/D, ignoring the 1/3 limit.

So by choosing a Grey Company list you are substituting a 4:1 ratio for the normal 1/3 bow limit, not getting anything above that.

I'd even say that you are giving up the opportunity to take a separate warband from Arnor with Rangers in it if you go Grey Company since it specifies what contains only Arnor models.

The rule is REALLY badly worded. But that is how I read it.
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Postby EricA » Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:59 pm

Thats what i originally thought too, and thats probably the way they meant it. Started out with just halbarad, RotN and then rangers. I think it could have been worded better because it doesnt really say it ignores the regular bow limit. They should have worded like"If you choose a Grey company force, Instead of the normal bow limit, you may include 4 rangers of arnor for every Dunedain or RotN."
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Postby jlong05 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:05 pm

ChrisLS wrote:Hmmmm... I'm not parsing the rule that way. It says:

You may opt to take a Grey Company force. If you do so, your force (or an allied contingent in your force) that contains only models from the Arnor list can take up to 4 Rangers of Arnor for each Ranger of the North or Dunedain it contains. It can do so even if this would take it above the normal bow limit.


Here is how I parse this:

- Are you taking a Grey Company force?
No: 1/3 bow rule applies as normal.
Yes: You can take up to 4 Rangers of Arnor for each RotN/D, ignoring the 1/3 limit.

So by choosing a Grey Company list you are substituting a 4:1 ratio for the normal 1/3 bow limit, not getting anything above that.

I'd even say that you are giving up the opportunity to take a separate warband from Arnor with Rangers in it if you go Grey Company since it specifies what contains only Arnor models.

The rule is REALLY badly worded. But that is how I read it.

I read that as the entire contingent as well. So that means you would have to have all Arnor models in the contingent be GC if you choose to have any GC ruled models.
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Postby ChrisLS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:25 pm

Yeah, Eric, that would be a much clearer way of wording it. Like I said, really badly written.
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Postby old coast » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:02 am

I'd look at this way

Shire and Arnor are separate allied contingents

under Allies and bow limit on page 6, bow limits are applied across each contingent individually.

Shire force 36 models- 12 bows= PASS

Arnor force 27 models- 13 Bows = FAIL

The Dunedain and RotN are now independent characters that must be included under GC rules of 4:1 so for 11 Rangers you'd need 3, Dunedain or RotN and Halbarad doesnt count. But if you drop four Rangers for Warriors under Halbarad its a Pass under 1/3 bow limit and still a sick list under the new rules with 22 bows plus the stones, plus alot of D6 guys..plus 66 models when most people wont be able to field 40...I wouldn't worry about squeaking in a couple extra bows :?
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Postby BrentS » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:12 am

EricA wrote:Also note on the bow limit, it is now rounded up, not down. So if you have like 11 models, 4 of them could have bows from what I understand.

Where did you see this? I don't recall reading that.

old coast wrote: I wouldn't worry about squeaking in a couple extra bows :?


You obviously don't know Eric. LOL.

Anyway, I think the army building rules around the grey company are the most confusing I've read.

This is the way I read the rules:

Grey Company Hero (for example Halbarad) could bring 12 Rangers in his warband BUT this also requires 3 Dunedain or Rangers of the North as well as Independent Warbands to meet the 4:1 requirement. If you wanted to bring additional Rangers then you'd need another hero capable of leading a warband and then additional independent warbands of Dunedain or Rangers as well.
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Postby Derg » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:16 am

Regarding rounding up, I can't recall the page number, but it's there. I was surprised myself. Bow limit is round UP.
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Postby BrentS » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:49 am

Derg wrote:Regarding rounding up, I can't recall the page number, but it's there. I was surprised myself. Bow limit is round UP.


You guys are right... just found it on page 5.
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Postby EricA » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:50 am

BrentS wrote:
EricA wrote:Also note on the bow limit, it is now rounded up, not down. So if you have like 11 models, 4 of them could have bows from what I understand.

Where did you see this? I don't recall reading that.

old coast wrote: I wouldn't worry about squeaking in a couple extra bows :?


You obviously don't know Eric. LOL.


I like my bows lol. The rounding up on bow limit is on page 5 "Your army can have 1/3 (rounding up) of its warriors equipped with bows....."

Reading the grey company again, I think they meant it to be that you could only take rangers of arnor if you also take the corresponding number of dunedain or RotN.
Originally I thought they meant that you may still take the normal amount rangers of arnor with the warriors, but you may additionally take RotN or dunedain to get additional rangers over the bow limit.

So new list....
The Shire

Meriadoc w/ shield
12x Hobbit militia w/ +1 str

Perigrin
12x Hobbit Archers

Paladin Took
12x Hobbit Militia w/ +1 str

Arnor

4x Ranger of the North

Halbarad
12x Rangers of Arnor w/ spear

Captain of Arnor w/ shield
4x Rangers of Arnor w/spear

600 points
61 Models
33 bows
27(39) Stones
12 Might
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Postby EricA » Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:59 am

Or for the arnor Part maybe if im following the train of logic

Ranger of the North

Halbarad
1x Warrior w/ horn
4x Warrior
3x Rangers of Arnor w/spear
4x Rangers of Arnor w/ spear

The above would be a grey company force

Captain of Arnor w/ shield
8x Warriors
4x Rangers of Arnor w/ spear

Ally another non-grey company arnor force?
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Postby old coast » Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:26 pm


This is the way I read the rules:

Grey Company Hero (for example Halbarad) could bring 12 Rangers in his warband BUT this also requires 3 Dunedain or Rangers of the North as well as Independent Warbands to meet the 4:1 requirement. If you wanted to bring additional Rangers then you'd need another hero capable of leading a warband and then additional independent warbands of Dunedain or Rangers as well.


seems that way to me too, Its not all that confusing , I think the thing to focus on is that the RotN and Dunedain are independent characters that cant take followers and must be included if you want to bypass bow limit.

so
Or for the arnor Part maybe if im following the train of logic

Ranger of the North

Halbarad
1x Warrior w/ horn
4x Warrior
3x Rangers of Arnor w/spear
4x Rangers of Arnor w/ spear

The above would be a grey company force



14 models . 9 bows FAIL on 1/3 bow limit,
also FAIL on GC qualification
(as he would need on more RoTN or Dunedain)


*This is a Grey Company Force*

2 Rangers of North

Halbarad
8 Rangers of Arnor /w Spear
3 Warriors of Arnor
1 Warrior of Arnor with Horn

15 models, 11 Bows. 1/3 test FAIL...GC qualified - PASS

Or

Halbarad
12 Rangers w/Spear

3 Dunedain or RotN

16 models, 16 bows

qualifies as GC..
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