Isengard - overpowered/tourney unfriendly?

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Isengard - overpowered/tourney unfriendly?

Postby LongFang » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:40 pm

I read on another forum (forget which) that the general feeling is that Isengard is not a very friendly tournament army - that it's overpowered. Just would like to get your opinion on the army. I don't want to be "that guy" at the tourney. I also did not see Isengard listed on any of the tournament results that I've been able to find.

Thanks
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Postby BrentS » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:38 pm

In my experiences there are three reasons people "complain" about Isengard armies at tournament. I'm not saying that I agree with any of them but its what I've heard.

1. Cheap Orcs being used as fodder in the middle ranks of Armoured Uruks and Uruk Pikes. People may complain that its cheesy and unthemed because a regular orc wouldn't ever spear support a Uruk

2. Maxed Uruk Crossbows. Some people just can't stand these Str 4 monstrosities when they are maxed out. Personally, I've always found a way to manuever around them but I know that some people just hate them.

3. Coupled with #2 - Vrasku is just nasty... Adding a two shot Crossbow with might can win you Contest of Champions without ever moving a model. THat bothers some people.

Having said that, I've never had a problem facing Uruks. I've beaten them and I've gotten beaten by them. I've even considered building an Uruk army... just haven't gotten around to it.
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Postby Gartl » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:39 pm

LOL. It is not overpowered. It is a solid army, but I have never lost to one and that is using basic Warriors of Gondor. Of course you can make it over the top with allies, but that is a different issue.
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
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Postby Gartl » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:42 pm

Maxed Uruk Crossbows.


In my opinion crossbows are far weaker than bows. As Brent said it is very easy to outmanuever them.

Vrasku is just nasty


That can be said about a lot of models. I would rather face Vrasku than Legolas any day.
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
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Re: Isengard - overpowered/tourney unfriendly?

Postby BrentS » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:42 pm

LongFang wrote:I also did not see Isengard listed on any of the tournament results that I've been able to find.

Thanks


If I recall correctly, there were 3 Isengard armies at the Throne of Skulls. There were also a couple at Gathering in the Desert. I think there were a couple at Adepticon as well - Frank and I faced one in the team tourney.
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Postby Smeagol » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:12 pm

Isengard is tough, but I stopped playing them primarily because I got tired of losing with them.

Orc SPAM is no problem unless you are doing a max model count using orcs to get the maximum number of corssbows in your force. However that being said Crossbows aren't too bad as long as you know how to minimize their damage.

Feel free to experiment with them and get a feel for how they play for you and forget about the "I hate Isengard" players. The first time I played Frank Brown (Febber) was against his Isengard with Vrasku. It was a very hard fight and he was shooting me to pieces, but I still feel I gave him a very good game despite the in game errors I made with my Haradrim Warrior force.
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Postby ponatowski » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:15 pm

As with most armies in LOTR there are combinations that can be built with Isengard that leave some opponents not liking the army. Tim K ran Isengard at TOS and though he had a troll, he also didn't have a single crossbow in the army...and I ran Isengard scouts with Saruman and Mauhur, but a D5 army will never be overpowering IMO. Now the army with 18 crossbows and Saruman probably gave some people headaches.

I've used Vrasku before and didn't have much luck with him...though I was running him with the scouts so he was the onlly crossbow in the army.

I don't spend hours fretting back and forth trying to figure out optimal list builds with max bow and odd allied combinations like some players do...then again, I guess I'm not thinking right...

I try to use armies that I enjoy playing yet are a challenge to win with for me; basically I look at my army lists once configured and ask myself whether I would enjoy playing against it if an above average player was using it...so far I've never been told or heard any muttering that any of my armies were OTT, so I guess I'm doing ok.

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Postby LongFang » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:17 pm

I brought them as the ringer army on Saturday of B3 2010, because it was my only fully painted force. I really liked how it played and I felt comfortable with the army, but I know it needs a few tweaks. I think I had half a dozen orcs, did not max on xbows, but had Vrasku.

I just don't want to be "that guy" :)

Thanks for the input!
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Postby Smeagol » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:20 pm

For Bilbo's Bash it's probably not going to cause too much gas. From my experience Brent varies the scenarios so they don't just favour the high FV, high defense forces.
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Postby febber » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:50 pm

The cheesiest Isengard lists I've ever seen are maxed crossbows and Shadowlord. The orc horde to support crossbows is kinda goofy to me. It's also not that good an army for a lot of scenarios.

I had a lot of success with Isengard in the past, but they are quite vulnerable to dwarves, and elves also in some scenarios. Gondorians can take them down. Bottom line they were more overpowered initially that they are now given the greater prevalence of F4 or S4 figures.

I plan to play my Uruks at one tourney this year given my goal of playing as many different armies (factions) as I can.
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Postby ChrisLS » Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:03 am

I definitely think Isengard is a rough army, but for different reasons - I think their best troops are the D6 shield Uruks and Berzerkers. So far the worst tournament list I think I've ever played against was 750 point army with Saruman and the rest of the model count equally divided between Berzerkers and Sword/Shield Uruks.

Personally, I like seeing crossbows on the field. You can use terrain or range to stay away from them and they're easier to wound in H2H with S3 models.
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Postby BostonNazgul » Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:53 am

. I would rather face Vrasku than Legolas any day


quote for the ages.

i would agree that they obviously have the upper hand in slugging match scenarios but all the TO's have got a good grasp on scenario variation so they do not stand out of place.

with their units, allies, and model mix, there are a lot of different army builds you can make depending on your personal preference.
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Postby LongFang » Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:46 am

Legolas and his 3 shots...I thought about, as a joke of course, modeling a legolas with a heavy bolter from a space marine scout or so.

Vrasku is only d5, 1 fate and with my rolling, his 2 shots at 3+ still miss or fail to wound. Same with Haldir. I've used him in half a dozen games and I think he's killed MAYBE 2 models. maybe.
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