Bilbo Bash forces

Post and review Lord of the Rings army lists.

Postby LongFang » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:19 pm

Why pay more points (only 1, granted) for an orc bowman, when the tracker is a better shot? A little survivability is worth the tradeoff for a 4+ shoot value IMHO. Heck, even if they are only used in the back of the field as volley-only shooters, you're still better off with the cheaper model (tracker).
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Postby febber » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:01 pm

Smeagol wrote:Unusable. If you don't maximize your bowfire then you are going to get shot to pieces unless you have a super elite and very small fast force that can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.

Basically bowfire lets you dictate when and where you will engage.


Max bows isn't essential for all armies. It is essential for some. Elves and Harad for sure, and I usually get close to cap on Gondor.

Mordor bowfire isn't that good. But you can take a lot of cheap archers and still have numbers despite being under cap. My ToS army was under bow cap, but I still had 18 Goblin archers.

Gartl wrote: I would have a lot more respect for someone who took orc or goblin bowmen rather than the "always making an appearance" orc trackers.


The problem as Longfang states is cost. I don't use trackers primarily because they are better archers. I use them because they are cheap. If trackers cost more than orc archers - or even the same - I would use some orc archers. For my Mordor lists archers serve three purposes: ranged offense; building numbers; hand-to-hand combat reserves. Trackers are better at 2 of these than archers. This is even more true when we are talking mounted archers.

Numbers are why I took Gobbo archers to ToS instead of prowler archers because of cost, even though the prowlers are not only better archers but much better in hand-to-hand (Higher fight + nasty throwing weapons).
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Postby Smeagol » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:23 pm

Gartl wrote:Maxed bows don't bother me nor surprise me. I am more annoyed with players that only take the combination of the best of every thing. I would have a lot more respect for someone who took orc or goblin bowmen rather than the "always making an appearance" orc trackers.
or Warriors of Gondor with instead of Rangers of Gondor ? :P
More Pot and Kettle logic.
Last edited by Smeagol on Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Smeagol » Wed Jul 06, 2011 1:29 pm

febber wrote:The problem as Longfang states is cost. I don't use trackers primarily because they are better archers. I use them because they are cheap. If trackers cost more than orc archers - or even the same - I would use some orc archers. For my Mordor lists archers serve three purposes: ranged offense; building numbers; hand-to-hand combat reserves. Trackers are better at 2 of these than archers. This is even more true when we are talking mounted archers.


The only option for mounted archers in orc forces is orc trackers. I don't use trackers in other forces despite being better shots. Orc archers have armour and can also carry spears. So I prefer them over orc trackers unless I have a numbers issue as stated earlier.

On the side of Good I almost never see Warriors of Gondor with bows. All I see are Rangers of Gondor which in my opinion are much worse than Orc Trackers. Why? It's not because of their points, but rather the fact they are better shots and as a reserve aren't in any great danger.

I personally will (depending on the force) balance my force across the board for front line fighters (shields), support (spears) and archery (preferably mounted). So my forces are predictable from that point of view.
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Postby Gartl » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:30 pm

or Warriors of Gondor with instead of Rangers of Gondor ?
More Pot and Kettle logic.


Except that your statement ignores the fact that my Gondor army uses all Gondor Warrior archers. The only army I have ever put Rangers in was Faramirs and that was for theme. Or is your memory really that bad? :P
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Postby Smeagol » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:39 pm

Yes it is.
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Postby febber » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:50 pm

Smeagol wrote:
febber wrote:The problem as Longfang states is cost. I don't use trackers primarily because they are better archers. I use them because they are cheap. If trackers cost more than orc archers - or even the same - I would use some orc archers. For my Mordor lists archers serve three purposes: ranged offense; building numbers; hand-to-hand combat reserves. Trackers are better at 2 of these than archers. This is even more true when we are talking mounted archers.


The only option for mounted archers in orc forces is orc trackers.


Barad Dur has 13 point warg riders with bows, Cirith Ungol does also. The 2 extra points isn't worth the extra defense in combat, because if the rider loses combat he's in trouble anyway, and I'm giving up essentially 2 fewer points if the tracker dies, for an increased ranged capability to boot.
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Postby Smeagol » Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:51 pm

Agreed.
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Postby Smeagol » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:11 pm

Alternate Easterling/Harad alliance wrote:1 Easterling Captain with shield
20 Easterling Warriors with shield
10 Easterling Warriors with bow
1 Haradrim Chieftain with bow & war spear on horse
20 Haradrim Warriors with spear
10 Haradrim Raiders with bow & war spear

Points = 600
Models = 62
Might = 2

Heroes are minimal, but it adds mounted archers with lances to an already decent force.
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Postby Smeagol » Fri Jul 08, 2011 10:54 pm

Or I could finish the Rhudar hillman force I started so many months ago. It's another pitifully weak force, but the models look nice.

Treachery of Rhudar wrote:]1 Barrow-wight (AKA Sorcerer King)
20 Orc Warriors with shield
1 Orc Warrior
1 Dunlending Chieftain with shield
1 Dunlending Chieftain with shield
20 Dunlending Warriors with shield
10 Dunlending Warriors with two handed axe
15 Dunlending Warriors with bow

Points Spent = 600
# of Models = 69
Might = 4
Break Point = 35
25% Point = 17
Archers = 15
Heroes = 3
Warriors = 66


A horde of warriors with two combat heroes and a little bot of magic to help counter enemy heroes. A spear supported combat line and some two handed weapons to help crack tin cans open. Plus a fair number of bowmen to provide fire support and act as a reserve as needed.

No cavalry and no good combat heroes, but hopefully the Barrow Wight will help deal with that weakness. Of course the entire force needs to be painted.
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Postby Lordgoober » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:00 pm

What would people think of this list

Imrahil mounted w Lance
Forlong

5 Mounted Swan Knights w lance
8 Foot Swan Knights
8 M@A
8 Axemen of Lossnarch
9 Rangers w Spears
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Postby Smeagol » Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:12 pm

Lordgoober wrote:What would people think of this list

Imrahil mounted w Lance
Forlong

5 Mounted Swan Knights w lance
8 Foot Swan Knights
8 M@A
8 Axemen of Lossnarch
9 Rangers w Spears
Interesting Collection. It looks limited in it's fighting options as it looks like it's built around the phalanx formation. It doesn't look like it has much of a combat line in terms of width. I don't mind hitting compact formations like the one that force lends itself to.

That force doesn't bother me and while it can put up a good fight it's still defeatable even with some of the rabble I'm considering.
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Postby Lordgoober » Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:42 am

If this deal goes through I'll have 11 clansmen of Lamedon (3 I already have and then another 8 coming in)

My fiefdom's collection of models that I have right now not counting this deal.

Imrahil F+M
24 Mounted Swan Knights, half metal, have plastic, 2 banners, 2 captains included there.
23 Foot Swan Knights, captain and banner included
Forlong and Angbor (bought them in metal from the bunker right before finecast dropped)
more Rangers than I would ever need ^_^
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Postby LongFang » Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:14 am

Lordgoober wrote:What would people think of this list

Imrahil mounted w Lance
Forlong

5 Mounted Swan Knights w lance
8 Foot Swan Knights
8 M@A
8 Axemen of Lossnarch
9 Rangers w Spears


I would drop the spears on the rangers and add a 10th ranger. That way you can at least volley and you still have 8 "spears" from the axemen.
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Postby jlong05 » Sat Jul 09, 2011 5:20 pm

To contrast. I believe my GitD army had:

Imrahil mounted with lance
7 mounted knights of Dol Amroth with lance
12 knights of Dol Amroth on foot
8 men @ arms of Dol Amroth
3? Axemen of Lossarnach
12 rangers on Gondor with spear.

Can't remember for sure on the Axemen though, and I don't have my list or books with me to check the count on points to make sure that is right. Anyway, this came in 3rd place overall and earned me my ticket to ToS.

I found the spears on the rangers to be huge, especially when I had them targeted in fights as I could then stack on them for spear help.
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