Bilbo Bash forces

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Bilbo Bash forces

Postby Smeagol » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:11 pm

I've got some time to look into finishing another force for Bilbo's Bash. The three I'm looking at are Haradrim, Easterlings/Haradrim and Fiefdoms. The Haradrim are the strongest list I think, the Easterlings/Harad Alliance are the strongest defensively and the Fiefdoms are the weakest force of the bunch.

The Serpent Horde wrote:1 Suladân, the Serpent Lord with bow
20 Haradrim Warriors with spear
23 Abrakhân Merchant Guards
20 Watcher of Kârna with bow

Points Spent = 600
# of Models = 64
Might = 3
Break Point = 32
Archers = 21
Heroes = 1
Warriors = 63


These are nearly finished in the painting department. I just need to finish up the Abrakhan Guard. this force almost made an appearance in Las Vegas, but I decided not to stay up all night painting and opted for sleep instead.

Easterlings/Harad Alliance wrote:1 Easterling Captain with shield
1 Easterling Captain with shield
1 Haradrim Chieftain with bow on horse
20 Easterling Warriors with shield
10 Easterling Warriors with bow
20 Haradrim Warriors with spear
10 Haradrim Warriors with spear & bow

Points Spent = 600
# of Models = 63
Might = 6
Break Point = 32
Archers = 21
Heroes = 3
Warriors = 60

This force is basically finished. I just need to base it and clean up some details on my older models.

Fiefdoms wrote:1 Angbor the Fearless
1 Duinhir of Blackroot Vale
40 Clansmen of Lamedon
19 Blackroot Archers

Points Spent = 597
# of Models = 61
Might = 4
Break Point = 31
Archers = 20
Heroes = 2
Warriors = 59

Often toyed with and not much in the way of paint on these models. I've played it a few times and it works after a fashion. I seriously dislike the Blackroot Vale archers and their impotent leader. I would prefer to use Halbarad and a bunch of Gondorian rangers instead, but theme is the important issue to this force. I can't tell you how disappointed I was to see the release of the WD article that the Black Root Vale archers were released in. Oh well maybe I can lie to myself and say I've never seen them. :P

Visually this should be the most attractive force. I'm trying to do tartan-like paint schemes on the clansmen's cloth and carrying the same idea over to the Blackroot Vale archers as well. The test figures look decent, but my eyes and hands aren't what they used to be.
Last edited by Smeagol on Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby orcishthug » Fri Jul 01, 2011 4:50 pm

The Serpent Horde list is nastier than the Watcher list I played (the standard against which I measure things) due to the better Hero for those scenarios and the can opening ability of the Chop Chop boys. Same archery.

The Easterling/Harad group is not nearly as nasty but D6 accross the front and numbers would make it sneaky good and difficult to ever break or beat in most scenarios. The mounted Chief might have a chance in C of C between the bow and charges if he can stay mounted. Could probably force a lot of draws in unfavorable match-ups.

I like the troops in the Fiefdom List (I'm chronically partial to Good/Gondor). I can't fathom why during the course of ongoing stat creep (High Strength Goblins, S5 Orcs) that GW would nerf the Blackroot Vale Archers. I have used them in the Siege games but there the presence of Mumak, Fell Beast, and Troll make them more interesting. Still wouldn't it be a hoot to draw a match against the Shadow Lord on Fell Beast, Cave Drake or Troll Chieftain with this list.
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It cannot be ever said ye
For the battle were not ready
Welshmen never yield
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Postby griffen127 » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:19 pm

what about a list that doesn't take max bow?
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Postby Smeagol » Mon Jul 04, 2011 6:27 pm

Unusable. If you don't maximize your bowfire then you are going to get shot to pieces unless you have a super elite and very small fast force that can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time.

Basically bowfire lets you dictate when and where you will engage.
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Postby griffen127 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:20 am

Got to disagree, I've won many tournies and never taken max bow. It's just a tool in the box just like a wraith, or cav.
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Postby Smeagol » Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:26 am

griffen127 wrote:Got to disagree, I've won many tournies and never taken max bow. It's just a tool in the box just like a wraith, or cav.
Your opponents were not very good then. Try that with me and I'll tear you apart. Depending on the scenario of course.
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Postby griffen127 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:01 am

come now, ive beaten frank without max bow along with several other"top" guy, i've had u on the ropes without it. It isn't a must. It's just another tool to use.
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Postby Gartl » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Not to offend, but Kyle you do build nasty armies. When you take the Shadowlord, drummer, hth beasts, etc., you are correct, you do not need max bow fire. You are an excellent opponent, but frankly, I fear your armies more than your skill. If I saw you winning tournaments with armies that were not geared to have every advantage I would respect your play much more. I think you have the skill to do so, but I haven't seen you do it yet.
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Postby Smeagol » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:35 pm

griffen127 wrote:come now, ive beaten frank without max bow along with several other"top" guy, i've had u on the ropes without it. It isn't a must. It's just another tool to use.
Pot and Kettle discussion. Both times we've faced off you and I have had maxed out bows. The second time you also had the Shadowlord escorting them.

Now for the Clansman force why would I want to remove the only models that don't have a -1 penalty in a fight? Those bowmen are there for two reasons. Bowfire obviously, but also to even out the fights by adding in an unmodified die roll when I can get multiples on one model matchups.
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Postby jlong05 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:14 pm

Smeagol wrote:Now for the Clansman force why would I want to remove the only models that don't have a -1 penalty in a fight? Those bowmen are there for two reasons. Bowfire obviously, but also to even out the fights by adding in an unmodified die roll when I can get multiples on one model matchups.


You should switch out some clansmen(about half say) for axemen and Forlong. That would give you the trifecta of heros and the additional Axemen are perfect to use as 2handers or single hand(spear) guys. You even would still have a nice model count.

You would drop to 53 models, my recommendation is:
Angbor
Duinhir
Forlong
Clasnsmen x20
Axemen x15
Blackroot Archers x15

You lose 4 bows(minor concern), but gain another hero. Addiitonally, 15 of yoru 2-handers double as spear supporters as well(something your archers lack) giving you addiitonal helper hits in fights where the archers lead and your axemen can't fully engage.
Last edited by jlong05 on Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Smeagol » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:23 pm

Don't own any axemen (other than Furlong of course) and I don't really like the axemen models. I could just swap out for the Woses which are fully painted and an under-represented force.

Though in Good on Good engagements or against Easterlings they will get torn up pretty bad.
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Postby griffen127 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:23 pm

To Gary I won acon with fiedoms not the drummer/ magic army of doom.not to mention ohers. Also the team tourney we won with no shadow L. And 11 bow at 1000pt. And smeagol I played u twice once with a 20/21 man front and 15 bow the other with a 20/20 man front with 15 bow. That's 25% below the max bow for the list. Hey I'm not saying that bow doesn't server a function. But hiding behInd it as a shield. Isn't really any mastery of the game. Now note any not targeting anyone with this. I'm making a point that max bow isn't a must. Damn typing this on a phone takes forever
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Postby Gartl » Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:06 am

To Kyle, I am not insulting your playing ability, but I have played you three times and twice your armies were built for one purpose, to win. I have enjoyed all of our games even though I knew in two of them there was no way for me to win (after looking at your army list). The one game I played against your Elves I think the game was very well played on both of our parts and it was a fun game. I simply don't think you should be the one questioning anothers army builds when you play the type of armies that I have seen you play.

I would also be curious to know your Fiefdom army build.
It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. - Boromir FOTR
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Postby jlong05 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:02 am

This discussion however has nothing to do with anyones play ability. It was a discussion of whether max bows is a necessity or not in a tournament setting. I would argue that Kyle is correct in that max bows is a tool in the box and not a requirement for a winning army.

I know I dont get in as many games as many of you, but I also believe max bows are not needed(and in fact look down on those lists that maximize that number as being less than fluffy/themed). Of course, I dislike playing min/max lists anyways.
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Postby Gartl » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:23 am

Maxed bows don't bother me nor surprise me. I am more annoyed with players that only take the combination of the best of every thing. I would have a lot more respect for someone who took orc or goblin bowmen rather than the "always making an appearance" orc trackers.
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