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2 quick ones...really! lol

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:23 am
by thorhak
Got a game in today...and broke out my Dragon for the fun of it.
My first question relates to "Draconic Charge". Per the Dragon profile in the Khazad Dum book, "If a Dragon charges into combat it will knock enemy models to the ground, in the same way as a Monstrous Creature, if it wins the fight."

So then, if my Dragon is charging into combat, do I get an extra attack? It's not implicit in the above description, but the rules for Monstrous Mounts do state such. So which is it? I played the game without the benefit of the extra attack for charging and tabled my opponent regardless! :twisted:

2nd question...Rumil's Parry rule.
So the rule states, "If an Evil model in a fight with RĂºmil rolls a 6, that dice must immediately be re-rolled (remember that you cannot re-roll a re-roll)."
So my Dragon charged Rumil, my opponent charged in many other Elves w/ support and had 12 attacks to my 4. He rolled a 6 while the highest I could muster was a 5. Rumil was out of Might, my Dragon had 1 pt. remaining. So I used my to make my 5-->6, and win the Fight based on a higher Fight value (Rumil=6, Dragon=7).

So then, because I didn't "roll a 6, but rather used might pt. to make a 5-->6, do I then need to re-roll? Two other players @ Collectormania had experience fielding Rumil but were divided on the issue. My opponent ultimately decided to take a strict interpretation of the rule and decided that a re-roll was not required...Rumil was squashed...

So those are my 2 questions! Thanks in advance for reading/replying!

Cheers!!

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:48 am
by JLeong
The Rumil Question: I would say you have to "Roll" a natural 6 in order to be forced to re-roll. Much like the Stormcaller's will-restoring rule, one has to actually roll a natural 6. This is specifically addressed in the Stormcaller's rules, but not in Rumil's. This interpretation, though, seems to fit the spirit of the new Elf special rules.

I'll leave the dragon question to those more familiar with the rules, but I don't believe monstrous mounts get an extra dice roll on the charge (I'm thinking Nazgul on Fell beasts-2 attacks for the Fell Beast, one for the Ringwraith).

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:03 am
by VeteranNoob
I agree on the Rumil question. To roll a 5 and use a might just to have to make a reroll doesn't make sense. I think rolling a "natural 6" is a good interpretation.

On the charge question, I defer to dragon players.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:18 am
by BostonNazgul
I see the draconic charge as a reference to the knock down ability of monstrous mounts, not the benefit of an extra attack.... I would love another attack if possible though....

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:06 pm
by ChrisLS
Completely agree with Jeremy. It clearly states that it gains the knock-down ability of the Monstrous Mount, but it does not define the model as a Monstrous Mount, so no bonus attacks.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:09 pm
by febber
1. Draconic Charge - this is possibly sloppy writing, but as written, the dragon does not get the extra attack. Note that there are other monstrous creatures that do. For example, the Spider Queen's and Shelob's "Pounce" rules specifically mention both the extra attack and knock-down effects. The cave drake's draconic charge rule, by contrast, is essentially identical to the dragon's. By the way, Josh, monstrous mounts DO get the extra attack when charging non-monstrous mounts. The fellbeast gets 3 attacks because of the fellbeast's 2, plus one for the charge. You can't add the riders's and mount's attacks - you have to choose one or other (whether charging or not), so you pick the beast's 2.

2. Rumil. I have always read these rules to refer to a natural six. However, one thing people sometimes overlook is that the rule as written applies to the wounding roll as well as the roll to win the fight, making him tougher to wound as well as tougher to beat.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:26 pm
by Smeagol
Frank and I agree on these two.