Glorfindel's horse

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Glorfindel's horse

Postby EricA » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:37 pm

Ok, so the question came up about the stats for Asfaloth. In the rule book it is listed as Asfaloth (horse), so I would assume that the stats would just be a normal horse. Just like a longbow (counts as a elven bow). Army builder however says that it is a 2 wound horse and is a 12 inch move woodland creature for 10 points, which I had never heard of before. While I think the army builder rules are wrong, we played it that way because we could not find any source that definitively answered the problem.
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Re: Glorfindel's horse

Postby BrentS » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:17 pm

EricA wrote:Ok, so the question came up about the stats for Asfaloth. In the rule book it is listed as Asfaloth (horse), so I would assume that the stats would just be a normal horse. Just like a longbow (counts as a elven bow). Army builder however says that it is a 2 wound horse and is a 12 inch move woodland creature for 10 points, which I had never heard of before. While I think the army builder rules are wrong, we played it that way because we could not find any source that definitively answered the problem.


Just a normal horse. None of the mounted elven heroes benefit from the Galadrim Steed special rules.
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Postby Smeagol » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:17 pm

When I asked about whether Asfoloth was a special creature (like ShadowFax) I was told by one of the developers that they just assumed that Asfoloth was elven for nag and to treat it as a normal horse.

Unfortunately Asfoloth predates Shadowfax and Galadhrim steeds. So they are just horses. Asfoloth should be a Galadhrim steed or an equivelant to Shadowfax.

Another thought on mounts. Do you know that if you mount Radigast the Brown on a horse that his mount can ignore all terrain types?
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Re: Glorfindel's horse

Postby jlong05 » Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 pm

EricA wrote:Ok, so the question came up about the stats for Asfaloth. In the rule book it is listed as Asfaloth (horse), so I would assume that the stats would just be a normal horse. Just like a longbow (counts as a elven bow). Army builder however says that it is a 2 wound horse and is a 12 inch move woodland creature for 10 points, which I had never heard of before. While I think the army builder rules are wrong, we played it that way because we could not find any source that definitively answered the problem.


Interesting. I will look into this as the AB files should not list Asfaloth as anything more than a normal horse.
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Re: Glorfindel's horse

Postby febber » Mon May 02, 2011 8:33 am

EricA wrote:Ok, so the question came up about the stats for Asfaloth. In the rule book it is listed as Asfaloth (horse), so I would assume that the stats would just be a normal horse. Just like a longbow (counts as a elven bow). Army builder however says that it is a 2 wound horse and is a 12 inch move woodland creature for 10 points, which I had never heard of before. While I think the army builder rules are wrong, we played it that way because we could not find any source that definitively answered the problem.


There's actually a very simple resolution to this problem.

Never, ever, ever, trust Army Builder data files with anything having to do with LOTR SBG.
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Re: Glorfindel's horse

Postby Smeagol » Mon May 02, 2011 10:18 am

febber wrote:
EricA wrote:Ok, so the question came up about the stats for Asfaloth. In the rule book it is listed as Asfaloth (horse), so I would assume that the stats would just be a normal horse. Just like a longbow (counts as a elven bow). Army builder however says that it is a 2 wound horse and is a 12 inch move woodland creature for 10 points, which I had never heard of before. While I think the army builder rules are wrong, we played it that way because we could not find any source that definitively answered the problem.


There's actually a very simple resolution to this problem.

Never, ever, ever, trust Army Builder data files with anything having to do with LOTR SBG.


:D
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Re: Glorfindel's horse

Postby jlong05 » Mon May 02, 2011 10:52 am

febber wrote:
EricA wrote:Ok, so the question came up about the stats for Asfaloth. In the rule book it is listed as Asfaloth (horse), so I would assume that the stats would just be a normal horse. Just like a longbow (counts as a elven bow). Army builder however says that it is a 2 wound horse and is a 12 inch move woodland creature for 10 points, which I had never heard of before. While I think the army builder rules are wrong, we played it that way because we could not find any source that definitively answered the problem.


There's actually a very simple resolution to this problem.

Never, ever, ever, trust Army Builder data files with anything having to do with LOTR SBG.

You know that is a bit harsh since I have taken over the maintainer role for those files and have yet to see any real feedback on the errors everyone seems to complain about.

Remember that AB files are created by volunteers. Not AB, not GW and not with any real support from the game manufacturers to assist. Its done in my free time, which is already split pretty heavily, but if you know of errors, please share so I can fix them. I dont play every army and therefore cannot catch every mistype that ever happened.

Honestly, and this is really to everyone that has AB and 'can'/'would' use it for SBG, please please please let me know of any bugs you find. I can't find everything myself, and so far the only REAL response to testing I have received has been bugs found in teh 'free peoples' and 'all evil' lists. Neither are really issues for our main use for SBG games.

Best contact method would be to email me for now(as I do not have a website for this work to be tracked). Email is azwargamer@gmail.com. Also if anyone is interested in helping(coding or testing) it would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Glorfindel's horse

Postby febber » Mon May 02, 2011 11:39 am

jlong05 wrote:
febber wrote:
EricA wrote:.


There's actually a very simple resolution to this problem.

Never, ever, ever, trust Army Builder data files with anything having to do with LOTR SBG.


You know that is a bit harsh since I have taken over the maintainer role for those files and have yet to see any real feedback on the errors everyone seems to complain about.

Remember that AB files are created by volunteers. Not AB, not GW and not with any real support from the game manufacturers to assist. Its done in my free time, which is already split pretty heavily, but if you know of errors, please share so I can fix them. I dont play every army and therefore cannot catch every mistype that ever happened.

Honestly, and this is really to everyone that has AB and 'can'/'would' use it for SBG, please please please let me know of any bugs you find. I can't find everything myself, and so far the only REAL response to testing I have received has been bugs found in teh 'free peoples' and 'all evil' lists. Neither are really issues for our main use for SBG games.

Best contact method would be to email me for now(as I do not have a website for this work to be tracked). Email is azwargamer@gmail.com. Also if anyone is interested in helping(coding or testing) it would be greatly appreciated.


Actually John, I had no idea that you were working on them, and I am fully aware that they are updated by volunteers. But that's the problem isn't it?

I bought AB specifically to use with LOTR SBG almost a decade ago. During that time, fully half a dozen different volunteers have worked with the files. For a long time, the only files that were up to date were prepared by Polish players. In Polish.

You obviously aren't responsible for a data error that was made back in 2003 or so when Asfaloth was introduced. But it got in there, and wasn't found until recently. Who knows how many other lurkers there are. During the whole time I used AB, there were errors in the data.

But lets say you put in the tons of time necessary to fix the data. The bigger issue is that AB, at least the last time I looked at it (I refused to pay for constant updates on a program that did not have reliable data sets) has never been able to hande ally lists and validate them properly. I have had over a dozen opponents hand me lists at RTTs and even GTs that were not Legions legal, but had been validated by AB. In fact, AB's errors is one of the reason TOs often require lists to come in ahead of time - newer players think they have valid lists but don't. I would much rather use AB than type my own lists in Excel, but so far it has been a waste of my time.

I wish you well in your endeavour, and I understand that it's a labor of love. If AB could be made to work with SBG it would be a big help to the game, and I might even use it, but the constant turnover in data builders, and the extended periods in which there were NO data builders, has left me unwilling to go back to AB, at least until years of reliabilty had been established.
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Postby Gartl » Mon May 02, 2011 12:08 pm

I tested John's files that he added, which was the latest WD files, and they were flawless. I could not find a single error in the files John created and I looked! Errors have existed in older files, but I expect John will find and fix them over time. Very nice work John and thanks for taking on this task!

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Re: Glorfindel's horse

Postby jlong05 » Mon May 02, 2011 12:25 pm

febber wrote:Actually John, I had no idea that you were working on them, and I am fully aware that they are updated by volunteers. But that's the problem isn't it?

I bought AB specifically to use with LOTR SBG almost a decade ago. During that time, fully half a dozen different volunteers have worked with the files. For a long time, the only files that were up to date were prepared by Polish players. In Polish.

You obviously aren't responsible for a data error that was made back in 2003 or so when Asfaloth was introduced. But it got in there, and wasn't found until recently. Who knows how many other lurkers there are. During the whole time I used AB, there were errors in the data.

But lets say you put in the tons of time necessary to fix the data. The bigger issue is that AB, at least the last time I looked at it (I refused to pay for constant updates on a program that did not have reliable data sets) has never been able to hande ally lists and validate them properly. I have had over a dozen opponents hand me lists at RTTs and even GTs that were not Legions legal, but had been validated by AB. In fact, AB's errors is one of the reason TOs often require lists to come in ahead of time - newer players think they have valid lists but don't. I would much rather use AB than type my own lists in Excel, but so far it has been a waste of my time.

I wish you well in your endeavour, and I understand that it's a labor of love. If AB could be made to work with SBG it would be a big help to the game, and I might even use it, but the constant turnover in data builders, and the extended periods in which there were NO data builders, has left me unwilling to go back to AB, at least until years of reliabilty had been established.


Well. I only took over the files just after GitD this year, and that was because I saw a post from the prior author thta said he was stepping aside.

I think if our core players here all made a diligent effort on bug tracking and what not the files could be seriously cleaned up and made good for TOs.

As for a completely bug free fileset, that is the dream, but we live in reality and there will always be stuff that causes wtf issues in the files and will have to be worked through. But the constant failure to notify on errors or mistakes, is what has caused these files to fall as far as they have in disrepair.

I am fully aware of the 'ally' issue and I know it can be fixed, I just need to focus on that portion which I had planned to do once the missing units issue was resolved. Again, I have a couple pages of 'bug' reports on the Lone Wolf forums, but they are ALL related to missing options for units in the full good/evil lists. The options were all valid in the LoME lists when I reviewed them. Unfortunatly for me, the tester who has been reporting the bugs is not a LoME user so it has made updates a bit harder to track down.

Anyway, If anyone is interested in testing and being a sounding board for me on these files, please PM me here. I am thinking the files are small enough I probably only need a couple testers. Just let me know.
Last edited by jlong05 on Tue May 03, 2011 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jlong05 » Mon May 02, 2011 12:29 pm

Gartl wrote:I tested John's files that he added, which was the latest WD files, and they were flawless. I could not find a single error in the files John created and I looked! Errors have existed in older files, but I expect John will find and fix them over time. Very nice work John and thanks for taking on this task!

Gary

Gary, thanks for the vote of confidence. I know I have been slacking. Just need to cleanup my RL priorities and stuff so I can better focus on updates and fixing the files.
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Postby EricA » Mon May 02, 2011 5:00 pm

Thank you for clarifying that. Even with the super stats, the Legolas I had still killed his horse with is auto-hits.
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Postby jlong05 » Mon May 02, 2011 5:10 pm

EricA wrote:Thank you for clarifying that. Even with the super stats, the Legolas I had still killed his horse with is auto-hits.

I checked the current file, and he is listed with 2 wounds, but I see no notes giving him a 12" move. Are you possibly using an old file version? Can you pm me with your AB version as well as the datafile version you are on for the SBG files.
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