New Sourcebooks Discussion Thread

All the latest and greatest info concerning the constant struggle and strife across Middle-earth!

Postby jlong05 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:12 pm

Slammers77 wrote:I have 4 of the 5 (didn't buy Moria). I might be odd, but I like them. I think there will be some significant change in army builds, which is good. The thing that nobody mentions, the book scenarios are very different with alot of random deployment by warband. Some bands will be very close together and you alternate placing warbands. Each band is going to need to be able to hold its own a little or get toasted and with alternating deployment you won't necessarily be able to avoid close combat with others. Also, most scenarios give points for the scenario objective plus more for other things. I still like the concept of staying with 600 pts rather than giving people the easy way out in force building.


I agree. I am so far, very happy with the new rules. I think the warband design will lead to very strong preplanning as how you set up your warbands will determine heavily on their survival during the new mission designs. Can't wait to give these a try.
The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
User avatar
jlong05
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ (In a lead-lined fridge)

Postby Smeagol » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:05 am

tjski wrote:Now, there are a few things that have me scratching my head, like the Spider Queen. In the Mordor book, she can lead troops for 115pts, but in the Moria Angmar book, she is an independant character. What gives??? It seems like GW likes to put out FAQ's for everything they do!
Spider Queens are loners in Moria forces and can't lead troops. If you want her to lead troops the troops have to come out of Mordor's list and ally her in. No FAQ required.
User avatar
Smeagol
 
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:20 pm

Postby Smeagol » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:06 am

Strangely Gondor can go toe to toe numberswise with evil, but I haven't found another Good force I own that can muster better than forty models.
User avatar
Smeagol
 
Posts: 2664
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:20 pm

Postby BrentS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:12 am

jlong05 wrote:
I agree. I am so far, very happy with the new rules. I think the warband design will lead to very strong preplanning as how you set up your warbands will determine heavily on their survival during the new mission designs. Can't wait to give these a try.


Here's my take on the postives and the negatives.

Positives:
1) I really like that SBG is back as a core game
2) I like the new warband army building rules.
3) I like all the options available as "upgrades". I think this will allow players to customize their forces much more than the previous rules


Negatives:
1) Didn't seem to correct some obvious "mistakes" in the profiles (e.g. Why is Eorl the Young not D7 like every other human hero with Heavy Armor and a Shield, Why does the Betrayer cast Compel and Transfix on the same score
2) Rule books are a light in content. These should have been combined in 2 books like Tim suggested or even potentially one book. As a corrolary, the cost is a bit too high considering the redundant nature of the books.
3) Some of the points changes seem arbitrary
4) Seemed to miss the chance to potentially rebalance some things

Overall, I'm pleased in the direction that things are going but frustrated at GW "moneygrab"... of course, no one should be suprised about the moneygrab.
User avatar
BrentS
 
Posts: 6295
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:38 pm

Postby Slammers77 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:58 am

The thing that kills me is the proof reading. Third paragraph under bow limit starts with "You army" instead or "your". After reading the scenarios again, I don't think numbers automatically equal victory, especially since each of the scenarios only end in a draw if the VP's are equal. Just because one side doesn't meet the objective doesn't mean auto draw which is a huge change.

I'm just not in favor of increasing to 700 pts automatically. WHFB went thru the same thing with 8th edition. All of a sudden everyone started playing 2500 pts because then they could take Lvl 4 mage and the fighty lord. I think all bumping it to 700 pts does is allow everyone to take their desired numbers and a big hero. I've always been more in favor of making players choose one way or the other.

John
Slammers77
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:47 pm
Location: Orlando

Postby jlong05 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:48 pm

I think John brings up some solid points. Making players have to choose between big jerks or numbers should be kept. Also, untill we actually get games in under the new rules we really won't know how the new scenarios lend to have numbers over big heros. All because you can out number the opponent may not mean an obvious win.
The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
User avatar
jlong05
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ (In a lead-lined fridge)

Postby febber » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:27 pm

Slammers77 wrote:I'm just not in favor of increasing to 700 pts automatically. WHFB went thru the same thing with 8th edition. All of a sudden everyone started playing 2500 pts because then they could take Lvl 4 mage and the fighty lord. I think all bumping it to 700 pts does is allow everyone to take their desired numbers and a big hero. I've always been more in favor of making players choose one way or the other.

John


So you want to see human/dwarf/elf armies lead by 4 generic captains? I don't, and I don't want to bring that boring ass army either.
All-time LOTR Grand/National Tournament Record: 92-18-45 (W-L-D), 63 major victories
21 awards in 35 events inc. 5x Best Overall; 2x 2nd Overall (w/o Best General); 9x Best General
2007 National Circuit Champion
2008 National Circuit Champion
User avatar
febber
 
Posts: 1269
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:25 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Postby BrentS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:43 pm

So some new observations...

Blowpipes for Woses are not the same as blowpipes for Mahud. The Woses state that blow pipes can't be shot if the model moved (Mahud allow for 1/2 movement)

Also, entry for Gandalf the White doesn't have sorcerous blast (but does have break the staff).
User avatar
BrentS
 
Posts: 6295
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:38 pm

Postby jlong05 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:46 pm

febber wrote:So you want to see human/dwarf/elf armies lead by 4 generic captains? I don't, and I don't want to bring that boring ass army either.

This is army theme issue and power gamer concern. We will always have those individuals that feel that yo can't win unless you bring generic heros. Hell, before this release there were several armies that never had a key hero, just the generic captain, so I doubt that will change. What needs to be done is to hold them accountable to a theming standard that says, would a generic captain be the overall leader for 4 or 5 war bands of forces?? Probably not.

After reading the new scenarios and VP scorings for them I am encouraged to see how this pans out as I like the was that is going.
The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
User avatar
jlong05
 
Posts: 587
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:02 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ (In a lead-lined fridge)

Postby BrentS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:50 pm

So only after we get some lists made and play some game will we be able to test this out... however, I suspect that "power creep" we saw at Throne of Skulls at 700 points will be different than games played using the new rules at 700pts. Sure if you want to bring a Goblin horde with generic captains, both army building styles will let you. However, having to bring so many heroes will naturally make the armies smaller. I think even at 700 points, players are going to have to make choices. Also, we'll see how games play out... perhaps 25-40 models won't be as big a detriment as in previous games. Not sure yet.
User avatar
BrentS
 
Posts: 6295
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:38 pm

Postby BrentS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:16 pm

A couple more things I noticed... some may be just quality control issues.

Ghan Buri Ghan moves 6" but Woses Warriors move 5"... seriously??

Druzhag's special rules/spells explicitly state that only unridden wargs can be affected by them (not warg riders)

I'm sure there are other "tweaks" as we dig into them.
User avatar
BrentS
 
Posts: 6295
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:38 pm

Postby BrentS » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:21 pm

Final thought for the day.... I'm thinking about cutting all the profile pages out of my five new books and putting them in sheet protectors in a single folder that I can carry around. I think it would take up less space.
User avatar
BrentS
 
Posts: 6295
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:38 pm

Postby Slammers77 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:35 pm

What I saw in the last edition was that to be consistently competitive you needed to mash as many S4 guys into a list as possible (preferably 60+). The lists that did the best were the Gundabad goblins and Harad with bunch of fat guys. Most of those armies ran with 3-4 heroes and now will require 5. All adding 100 pts does is give an extra big hero to meet the requirement and does nothing to change those forces.

I played with an Arnor list real quick:

Arvendui
12 Warriors of Arnor

Captain of Arnor, Shield
12 Warriors of Arnor

Capt of Arnor, Bow
6 Rangers
6 Rangers w/spears

Gondor Captain, Horse, Lance, Shield
4 Minas Tirith Knights, shields

43 Models, solid defense, good fight. In the last version of the game the Capt of Gondor was a King of Men, there was 1 more knight and about 10 more warriors of arnor. Decisions...sure I could bump some stuff up, but that's where the decision making process is.

John
Slammers77
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:47 pm
Location: Orlando

Postby prion2001 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:53 pm

Finally got three of the book and man am I excited. Are there going to be issues with theme, min/max, rules, etc? This is a GW product so you can figure it out. :wink:

Is this going to revitalize LotR SBG and potentially pull in some new blood? Yes! Is it going to force us old timers to rethink our lists and model collections? Yes. Will we survuve? Hell yes.

I think the only decision (from a tournament play standpoint) is when we start using these? Decisions, decisions.

Sorry, I have to go build some new lists!!

Jamie
"It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing." Boromir
Check out my painting blog at http://www.fivearmies.blogspot.com
Shop Gorgon Studios. http://www.gorgon-studios.com
User avatar
prion2001
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Tinley Park, IL

Postby Guardian of Ecthelion » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:51 pm

BrentS wrote:Final thought for the day.... I'm thinking about cutting all the profile pages out of my five new books and putting them in sheet protectors in a single folder that I can carry around. I think it would take up less space.


Good idea but if these books are anything like the other books GW puts out just open and read them for a week or two and the pages should just fall out.
User avatar
Guardian of Ecthelion
 
Posts: 877
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 9:26 pm
Location: Wisconsin

PreviousNext

Return to Lord of the Rings News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron