New Sourcebooks Discussion Thread

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New Sourcebooks Discussion Thread

Postby BrentS » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:23 am

Just prepping a thread to specifically talk about the new sourcebooks.
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Postby griffen127 » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:36 pm

Prices don't seem to bad, mre so if u buy them for 18 a piece.
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Postby Lordgoober » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:23 pm

From what I heard today, even though I couldn't see the books, the bow limit is still intact, 1/3 throughout whole army, grey company excepted as usual. There are some tweaks here and there. Hopefully G+ will get their books in tomorrow while I'm there painting romans ;)
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Postby BrentS » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:30 am

The floodgates are starting to open. Some info from TLA:


Isilduin wrote:In more news (quotations marks are his exact words, and please note that I myself haven't seen the books, so don't shoot the messenger!):

"Groblog is stupid, absolutely stupid... He makes fury better"
"Spider goblin guy is basically a shaman with paralyze"
"Castellans got a huge buff, they are now the same points as generic orc captains"
"All the Elf major heroes buff elves into the stupid OP tier"
"Gondor can now flood better than goblins"
"Kings huntsman rivals legolas in shooting"
"Eomer got buffed and Outriders finally got nerfed"
"Erkenbrand got a rework"

Ar-Pharazon wrote:
"All the Elf major heroes buff elves into the stupid OP tier"


I have seen the Free peoples book today (was allowed by a staff member :D )
I would not say the upgrades to elfs are stupid OP. I`ll list them here for you, but not exactly, (however I do know them exactly :P ):
Gil-Galad: High Elfs get more fight
Tranduil: Wood Elfs get better shootvalue
Gildor: Wood Elfs get more movement.

Also I can confirm that most profiles in the Free Peoples book are not changed. Saruman, Legolas are exactly the same, but the Twins are back to using their 3 attacks only on foot. Durin got the most stupid "upgrade" rule, he can upgrade dwarfs to allways pass their courage tests for a measely 2 points :lol:
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Postby BrentS » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:20 pm

More from TLA:

Zogash wrote:Sooo, I just had a look through the books at my local GW, and I can say I have not been this disappointed in a looong time (even by GW's standards)! Rohan stays pretty much the same, the only significant addition is the already mentioned Erkenbrand buff, but RoR stay exactly the same - no lances, no option to drop the bow, and mediocre stats - the cost remains the same. Erkenbrand's Horn changes from counting as an army-wide standard for one turn to a normal horn that gives +2 C instead of +1.
Normal Éomer stays exactly the same, Pelennor-Éomer loses his Rage-rule and is S5 on the charge.
The King's Hunter has a shoot value of 3+, carries an Elven bow, and only fails in-the-way-rolls on a roll of 1 (instead of 1-3). He costs 25 Skaven slaves and otherwise has a basic human captain profile, only that he has only 1 attack. Overall nothing significant enough to make a Rohan army much more competitive - especially an all-mounted Rohan army is still pretty much impossible, since horses still have 0 survivability and once they're gone you're left with very expensive WoR. I raged quite a bit... :evil: Also, I haven't noticed any new units that don't have models yet, certainly not for Rohan and neither for 2nd Age Elves - so no High Elven variety any time soon. -.-

To make matters worse, some of the things they did change, make you wanna punch somebody... for instance, the already overpowered (for its price) Dwarven King's Champion got its cost reduced by another 10 points while staying exactly the same rules-wise. This really does make me question the sanity of some people in Nottingham... I rage-quit after all this and didn't take a look at the other three books because I felt I had to cool down a bit. I'll take my armies (Rohan and Last Alliance... who'd have guessed... :P) there tomorrow and see how it goes, but on first glance, the books are a severe disappointment.

Edit: Oh, and Erkenbrand's (and I assume all similar) upgrade special rule is army-wide. So not only his warband's RoR may be upgraded to F4, but all of them. The question is if it's worth it. An upgraded RoR with Throwing Spear is 16p., you can get a mounted Royal Guard (minus the spear) for the same price - and they're D6 and pass all courage tests while their hero lives...
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Postby Lordgoober » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:35 pm

I have Free Peoples and Mordor now (TYG+) and I'll give a full overview later.

Dwarf Changes:

Durin lets you give Dwarf Warriors (basic warriors) effectively the bodyguard rule with him as the focus.

Murin and Drar let you give Dwarf Warriors and Rangers S4.

Double Handed weapons for Warriors and Rangers now cost 1 point instead of being free.

Durin's Axe for Balin is 10 points cheaper.

For construction, Heroes that are bought in pairs (Murin and Drar, the Elf Twins etc) are normally the only heroes that can be put in the same warband unless army lists say otherwise (Fellowship and White Council for example)
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Postby BrentS » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:48 pm

Lordgoober wrote:I have Free Peoples and Mordor now (TYG+)


Now way to say this without sounding bitter... but this is what makes me mad about the GW advanced order system. They are "controlling" everything for a Saturday release but the independent stockists just roll it out.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing more about the books and finally getting mine on Saturday.
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Postby jlong05 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:05 pm

If it makes you feel better Brent. I can't get mine yet and I ordered through an independant.
The only "hobby" GW is interested in is lining their pockets with your money.
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Postby prion2001 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:15 pm

BrentS wrote:
Lordgoober wrote:I have Free Peoples and Mordor now (TYG+)


Now way to say this without sounding bitter... but this is what makes me mad about the GW advanced order system. They are "controlling" everything for a Saturday release but the independent stockists just roll it out.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing more about the books and finally getting mine on Saturday.
'
I hear you brother. My GW store guy was giving me the greif about not wanting to get fired. I even told them I was considering using this stuff for a tournament and the more time i had the better. I might have to explain to them how they are screwing over their customers, not that I expect much sympathy.

I actually can't wait to get these and start seeing how they change my lists.

Jamie
"It is a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing." Boromir
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Postby BrentS » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:18 pm

prion2001 wrote: I hear you brother. My GW store guy was giving me the greif about not wanting to get fired.


I don't blame the local shop guys, they are just following their companies rules... its just a shame that they are going to lose sales to other sources that aren't holding back.

If I had a local shop that had them, I would go buy them all tonight and then "return" my GW pre-order on Saturday. But I don't have a local shop nor that much interest in driving to a store to pick them up.
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Postby Smeagol » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:28 pm

Lordgoober wrote:Murin and Drar let you give Dwarf Warriors and Rangers S4.
Woo Hoo!

Lordgoober wrote:Double Handed weapons for Warriors and Rangers now cost 1 point instead of being free.
Doh!

Lordgoober wrote:Durin's Axe for Balin is 10 points cheaper.
Woo Hoo!

Lordgoober wrote:For construction, Heroes that are bought in pairs (Murin and Drar, the Elf Twins etc) are normally the only heroes that can be put in the same warband unless army lists say otherwise (Fellowship and White Council for example)
Doh!

So basically GW is forcing events to increase points or the players have to use fewer models in their warbands. The Forces of Good are screwed big time in my opinion.
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Postby Monty » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:57 pm

Did I see earlier that Rohan Outriders got nerfed? Does that mean removed or issued in plastics? I have been working for about 9 months on plastic converted Outriders; clipping shields, sanding, green stuffing hoods...would suck if they were eliminated.
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Postby Smeagol » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:57 pm

I would think they got changed to warrior status.
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Postby Lordgoober » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:02 pm

From what I'm reading on TLA, you still need 1 Dunedain/Ranger of the north for every 4 rangers for Grey Company but the Dunedain/Ranger of the North don't get to lead warbands.
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Postby BrentS » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:10 pm

Here's the TLA post for those too lazy to click to it:

dezartfox wrote:Got to read majority of the books today
Right, some changes I remember:

FREE PEOPLE:
Elves are good. Thranduil can upgrade all woodelf warriors to havea 2+ shoot value for two pts, his staff is now better, can cast natures wrath once a game
balin axe upgrade got cheaper by 10pts, if you take the duo-friend dwarfs, warriors/rangers can be upgraded to S4 for 2pts
If you take durin, you can buy what is effectively bodyguard rule for 2pts
Thinks thats about it that was WHOA
You can take tom and goldberry in normal games......

MEN AND STUFF
Rohan still the same, outriders aren't heroes.
the marksman dude re-rolls 1's, and if he slays a monster or hero gets his might replenished I think
Grey company are practicaly unplayable. You need 1 ranger/dunedain for every 4, but the ranger/dunedain CANNOT lead a warband, so you still need other characters..
Riders of the dead are cavalry! But they only have 1 character, the king, who still sucks.
Err.. think thats it

MORIA and ANGMAR
Cave drake got M/W/F, think its 1/3/1? Similar to that, and a 25pt rise
The stand on rock big hat character makes fury a 5+ rather than 6+ whilst he's alive (no range!), 5 pts cheaper than goblin king
prowlers and blackshields are 1pt more.
Gundabad shaman got the reroll 1's against dwarves and elves, which works with tremor..
spectres got blades of dead, and their ability cant make models move into combat.
For some reason in Moria the spiderqueen is a single character (cant lead warbands) but in Moria isn't... oh and costs 115 pts for same stats and rules as before, spiders are 5pts less
beast shaman can upgrade spiders to reroll ALL wounds
spider character has an ability where if you wound him, or he wounds you he paralyses you like a barrow wight, other than that he's shaman.
Dweller is ok, only D5 is its downside. 3W, 3A, gets wounds back when it kills someone.

FALLEN REALMS
Mauhur makes all uruk scouts 8" move for 1pt (better!), ally in a blak guard drummer for movement 11"
sharkey and worm are in there, cant remember what they do, but they're CHEAP
amdur gained the not fall over rule.
Easterling kataphrakts get wardum (same as orc drum, +3", effects all easterlings and Khand)
Easterlings can upgrade to F and C4 for 2pts
corsair arbalesters aren't unarmed in combat.
harad can have 50% bows if they only use certain warriors
warriors can be upgraded to either C4 for 1pt, or shoot value 3+ for 2pts, cost 1pt more than before


Warbands work as 1 hero leads 12 warriors, bow limit goes across army, not warbands unless you ally in other lists.. heroes don;t have to lead anyone. If a hero consists of 2 models, like elf twins, you pick one as leader, other counts as a warrior (so 2 heros and 11 guys)
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