Page 1 of 1

Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:42 pm
by RichN
If you don't mind me saying, I think we had a pretty good year in 2013. First I'll take a moment to look back, then time to look forward to 2014.

Despite the retirement of WAB by GW, the player base remains steady at 10-15 guys. I think we can look forward to another year of WAB singles at Adepticon. WAB Doubles needs a facelift, 3 or 4 teams just is not enough for a tournament. WAB group battles remain popular with Hastings pulling in a table full of players on Friday night.

Saga was rather popular this year. Moving the tournament to a Friday time slot appears to be the best option.

Hail Caesar started small with 4 players at the Match Play on Thursday. I'll continue working with this rule set going forward.

A big round of applause for our judges this year - Merle, Mike, Aaron and Matt all did a great job with their events.

Possible events for 2014
WAB Singles on Saturday. WAB2 with AoA army lists. Judge TBD.
WAB Team on Sunday. Two teams with Crusade theme. Start at 8am with 2 rounds of 1v1 at 1400 pts. Take a generous break for lunch, then finish the day with a grand battle. All games score battle points for Crusader vs Arab Best Team award. Mike B and I may run/organize this event.
Saga tournament. 6 points? Organizer can have their pick of Friday time slots. Aaron, do you want to run the tournament again?
More big games. Friday has 2 more slots for participation games. Based on this years results, having participants supply their own armies seems to make for better game rather than having the organizer supply all figures.
Hail Caesar Match Play. Suggestion was made to play earlier on Thursday. We had 4 players this year. Can we double that for 2014?

New Players
I think we need to bring a few new players into the Ancients events. Any thoughts on recruiting?
Maybe we run a few demo games in the hallways next year - get out and fly the banner so to speak.
I would also like to get out to Rock-con in Rockford this year and see who else we could meet.

For anyone reading this thread who held off from the events, we don't bite and don't count buttons. And you certainly don't need to be an expert in the game. Most of the players attending Adepticon play Ancients once or twice a year - with Adepticon being one of those times.

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:01 pm
by fyrblckdragon
I'd like to get into Historical gaming, but I would need more details. A brochure with the following would be awesome:

I assume my questions are similar to any beginners:

1. I play several other wargames: (pick any major ones). How does (insert appropriate ruleset being used for Ancients) compare with those major sets? What are similarities, what are major differences?

For example, I watched the doubles events, and from what I can tell on the sidelines, WAB plays like 7th ed Fantasy, without magic, and with a few extra movement/psychology rules.

2. Where do I get a hold of the ruleset being used?
3. How do I pick an army?
4. What are modeling conventions I need to be aware of?
5. Since I assume colors/style matters more to Historicals players, where can I find guides? (More specific than go to library, please :) )
6. What scale is being used, and where do I get minis for that scale?
7. What can I expect to spend if I'm only using the army once or twice a year? More than a boardgame? If so, how can I get additional games in?
8. How much is re-enactment of a specific battle, and how much is just wargaming with different toys?
9. Are there modeling competitions for dioramas, scenes, etc, or just gaming standard minis?
10. Adepticon hosts Ancients events, where can I find other competitive events for my new toys, using similar rulesets/scales?
11. What are the terrain requirements/battlefield size?

I'm sure there are other q's - but those were the first ones that came to my mind. For example, on the minis front, I know WWII=Flames of War, and many Ancients = Warlord games, but that's only because I see those lines at my FLGS. I'd have no clue where to start on non-25mm, or any other era.

Those are the most intimidating questions I can see. Historicals are much harder to get into than fantasy/sci-fi gaming because there is so little marketing (compared to other wargames/boardgames). Information is hard to get to as well - there are few if any content-heavy websites within google-range that aren't behind a paywall (many wargames clubs require paid membership for access to info). This is radically different than scifi/fantasy.

My .02


Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:26 pm
by RichN
Hi Ken,

All good questions.

Ancients covers a lot of ground. For this discussion, we'll assume it covers Biblicals up to the introduction of gunpowder in 28mm scale. There are plenty of other periods and other scales, but these are the ones commonly played at Adepticon.

1. The main rule sets are WAB along with Clash of Empires/War & Conquest. These are GW style rules which would be familiar to anyone playing WFB. Hail Caesar is a Rick P. rule set which has a lot in common with Warmaster. Saga is a skirmish scale game for the Dark Ages.

2. WAB can be picked up on Ebay. GW closed their Historical department, making the books difficult to purchase. There are a few folks around these forums who might be able to help out with extra copies. Clash of Empires/War & Conquest are both rewrites of WAB from other publishers. HC is available from Warlord. Saga from Gripping Beast.

WAB has a 1st edition and a second edition. Most folks are playing 2n ed with the 2nd ed Armies of Antiquity army list book.

3. How to pick an army. Settle on a period, rule set and scale.
Finding the appropriate figure for the period is one of the fun parts of Ancients. ... 1&t=106577
This link list has a comprehensive list of manufactures by period.

An abbreviated list of manufacturers:
Perry Brothers
Gripping Beast (plastic saxons)
Warlord (plastic Romans, Hoplites, Macedonians)
Victrix (plastic hoplites)
FireForge (plastic Crusades Knights)
Old Glory 25 (US company with low prices and various levels of quality)
Black Tree Design (US company with low prices and various levels of quality)

US Distributors of UK products
Age of Glory - Crusader
Architects of War - Gripping Beast and others
The War Store - Foundry

4. Most figures do not come supplied with bases or spears.
5. Osprey publishes a wide range of hand books for historical periods. The old WAB army books have a wealth of background material and painting guides.
Warfare in the Ancient World edited by General Sir John Hackett & Greece and Rome at War by Peter Connolly are excellent overviews of the ancient armies.
6. 28mm. 15mm is also popular, but I like to see what I'm playing with.
7. Figures start at about $1 per fig, going up to $6 for high quality cavalry. A Hail Caesar army will have 200+ figs. Saga uses 30-50 figures.
8. Mostly wargaming with different toys. 1v1 play is common. That said, group games playing based on themes or historical battles are one of the popular event types at Adepticon.
9. Military modeling is a whole different subject that I know little about.
10. Little Wars is coming up on 4-27/28. It's focus is all historical.
11. Saga plays on 4x4. Most of the rest play on 8x4 tables.

I play Ancients with a club hosting games in Cecero. I have space for 1 gaming table at my place in Darien and would be happy to host demo games.


Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:27 am
by BostonNazgul
I played in the WAB team event a couple years ago with a small teutonics list. I really really really wished I could have had time to get some saxons on the table for the big game but it did not happen.

I have the big game on my radar for 2014 assuming it does not clash with other events I play in. Would have to relearn rule sets, only played WAB1.5 before...

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:16 pm
by Matt-J2
Well Rich, I'm in for all/most of the above. I'll plan for all, unless a sweet seminar comes up again. I like the idea of moving Saga to Friday a lot. I was signed up this year but was too worn down after singles. The Sunday big game also sounds great as I said over the weekend, excellent way to wind the event down.

Also, thanks again to the guys who came out Sunday morning for our small doubles event!

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:36 am
by RichN
WAB 2.0 is not all that different from WAB 1.5. If you look around from when the edition was released, there should be cheat sheets listing the changes. Biggest change in army building was the move from counting 3 ranks of infantry for combat res to counting 2 ranks (with close order infantry picking up a +1 res for the unit type). Units are no longer 4x4 boxes of troops, now being deployed in a 6x3 rectangle. Most everything else is easy to pick up while playing with someone who is familiar with version 2.

The other big change was the release of the Army's of Antiquity 2 army list book. It changed the point structure so that lists from the old books are not compatible with new lists. Roughly speaking, 2000 points in the old system is 2800 points in the new. Its not a perfect conversion, some armies gained a lot from the change.

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:41 pm
by fyrblckdragon
Cool, step one completed, I found a copy of WAB 2nd ed, hopefully will have that in a few weeks from the UK.

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:47 pm
by Lordgoober
If you need to look at AoA 2.0 at some point there are several of us who have it in the area.

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 11:05 pm
The Saga event, especially 6 pts, would draw 2 or 3 of the ancient players from Peoria who would not normally go to Adepticon. So this is my prime interest. I was supposed to play this year but like others I was too tired after the day long FOW tournament.

Mike Horton

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2013 7:37 am
by RichN
Saga is pretty much a lock at this point. Its just a matter of who will be running the event & in which time slot the event will run.

Conflicts with other tournaments are so very common at Adepticon & hard to avoid. That said, which time slots for Saga would you be more favorable to Mike?

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:11 pm
by Nostromo
I will volunteer for saga again if theynwill have me

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:05 pm
by RichN
Hi Aaron,
can you chose a time/date for the event & send me the details. I'm not able to coordinate events this year, but I can get the email pushed on to folks who are working on it.


Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:16 am
by DavePauwels
I would definitely try and play in the Friday SAGA tournament, if it's early enough. I have our annual Guns of April game around 7:00/7:30 Friday evening.

I know I had talked about trying to get as many of the Ancients players together for one event, now that there are so many different systems competing for players. I thought SAGA seemed like a reasonable choice, as it was a relatively low figure count and a fun game.


Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:22 pm
by socalwarhammer
So may I be so bold to ask what the rest of you playing in the WAB tournament are thinking about bringing. As I have more than 1 army, I was hoping to bring something that would give the greatest likelihood of a historical match-up (or something close to it). :D

Re: Ancients 2014

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:28 pm
by Nostromo
What- there is a wab tournament!