Warhammer Historical Closes

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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby socalwarhammer » Wed May 30, 2012 5:36 pm

Thogrid wrote:In addition to Rich's comments about proximity moves, I think the other biggest problem players new to BP/HC have is in the command phase. You specifically state the orders for the unit/units you are rolling for ("move to the ridge line and engage the enemy in hand to hand combat") and if your command roll is sufficient, you move the unit/units to fulfill the order. If it is not (you only roll well enough to have two moves/actions and your orders require three) the unit/units must move to try and fulfill their orders. Most of the time, I've seen guys be conservative ("move 12 inches to the road") and only need to roll enough for one move/action, then roll really well and want the unit to do more than their orders called for. Sin Loi at that point...you can only move as far as your orders stated. That *could* be an issue in a tournament setting at first, but I think our group would sort it out.

While I might have some concerns about HC in a tournament situation at other venues, I think the group of players we've had show at previous AC events are of the right mind set to make it work. I've seen nothing but pure, good sportsmen more concerned with playing the game correctly as opposed to taking some advantage...so I think an HC tournament would work with the current lot of us.



I have to play a 2-round tournament -style HC games on 2 occasions last year. The order phase can create a lot of issues. It almost required that theorders be written down in short hand to avoid ambiguity or contention between players. Very loose orders can create as many (if not more) issues than very specific ones. I really think you should try HC in a competitive, tournament style setting before attempting to do so at Adepticon. For pick-up and big group games, HC is a great system, it lacks some of the real mechanics necessary to be an effective tournament game. I would have to say that for the team and individual tournament events, at this point in time it either needs to be WAB or COE. That's just my 2 cents... :D
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby PsychosisPC » Wed May 30, 2012 5:55 pm

socalwarhammer wrote:
Thogrid wrote:In addition to Rich's comments about proximity moves, I think the other biggest problem players new to BP/HC have is in the command phase. You specifically state the orders for the unit/units you are rolling for ("move to the ridge line and engage the enemy in hand to hand combat") and if your command roll is sufficient, you move the unit/units to fulfill the order.


The order phase can create a lot of issues. Very loose orders can create as many (if not more) issues than very specific ones. .... it lacks some of the real mechanics necessary to be an effective tournament game.


Those are the mechanics that I really have the biggest issue with in HC. I also love WAB style combat and leadership checks.

And those orders are concerns in a loud environment for someone like me that has a hard time hearing in those settings...shorthand orders would be the way to go...maybe a hearing aid is in order, but I don't want to feel that old. :cry:
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Thogrid » Wed May 30, 2012 7:38 pm

Please, don't mistake my druthers here guys. My first choice is to continue playing WAB, regardless what WHH/Forge World/GW has decided to do with our favorite game. There are ways to get the rules/lists to new players that are interested in playing...it might be an electronic format, but it is possible. I hope we keep on using WAB for our games.
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby RichN » Wed May 30, 2012 10:31 pm

I hope we keep on using WAB for our games.

at this point in time it either needs to be WAB or COE.

We just need someone to volunteer to run either of these rule sets in the Saturday time slot. If I run the event, it will most likely be HC or possibly WAB (without AoA2).
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Nostromo » Wed May 30, 2012 11:55 pm

I thought you had a Singles volunteer, or was that just big game?

I propose we stay with WAB, but work to make it better. Taking off what Merle said...

Here is my reasoning. Adepticon is a driving force for 40k tournaments. The INAT FAQ is used all over the country, and it is developed by ACon staff.

Why cant we do the same with WAB? Hell. Between us we know or have contact with probably most of the list/supplement authors. We can contact them directly and see if there are things they would change now with time, further research or WAB2. I bet we would get replies.
We decide on answers to rules questions and write them up.

We promote more historically acurate lists, and restict the weird cheese that makes no sense.

I think we would gain a following!
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Thogrid » Wed May 30, 2012 11:57 pm

RichN wrote:We just need someone to volunteer to run either of these rule sets in the Saturday time slot. If I run the event, it will most likely be HC or possibly WAB (without AoA2).


I'm still not in a position yet to volunteer to run the Singles event. Rumor has it there are some down sizing moves in the offing for our team...and I'm looking. Hopefully my work situation will be sorted out by mid July. :roll:
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Thogrid » Wed May 30, 2012 11:58 pm

Nostromo wrote:I thought you had a Singles volunteer, or was that just big game?

I propose we stay with WAB, but work to make it better. Taking off what Merle said...

Here is my reasoning. Adepticon is a driving force for 40k tournaments. The INAT FAQ is used all over the country, and it is developed by ACon staff.

Why cant we do the same with WAB? Hell. Between us we know or have contact with probably most of the list/supplement authors. We can contact them directly and see if there are things they would change now with time, further research or WAB2. I bet we would get replies.
We decide on answers to rules questions and write them up.

We promote more historically acurate lists, and restict the weird cheese that makes no sense.

I think we would gain a following!


I concur with Aaron on all counts.
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby tjski » Thu May 31, 2012 1:29 am

Guys,

I would have to concur with Merle and Aaron, being the guy who started WAB at Adepticon, I would like to see it continue. Now as some know, I was not a fan of WAB2 (in fact still have not played a version 2 yet), but Adepticon can take the lead to keep it going. The hardest thing would be to bring in new players, you would need to make the rules as well as the lists. And yes, you could get some help from some of the authors, although some of us are still rather bitter with how we were treated.

Just my two cents...

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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby aergren » Thu May 31, 2012 8:31 am

I think that I will have to be like Shaun and if HC is chosen for the tournaments I will have to stay out of them.
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby mikebutcher » Thu May 31, 2012 8:38 am

Hey,
Checking in on the road to Fort Lewis, WA. for 5 weeks. 600 Miles of North Dakota yesterday. On to Spokane tonight. Woo Hoo

Anyhow,

I plan to run the Friday Night game using WAB2 and AoA2 (although we can figure out non-AoA2 lists if it is really necessary. I will start a thread on this when I get settled in a bit in WA. I haven't had a breather since March between school (gradauated with my BFA less than 2 weeks ago), my job, etc.

Game will be Dark Ages England up to 1066. Lists, specifics, etc. to follow on this forum.

My 2 cents,
Perhaps keep the singles WAB and test out HC (or another) for doubles. IMHO, the orders part seems a little more in place when allies are involved anyway.

I'm sure we can figure out a way to "tournament-up" up the orders bit. Perhaps writing the orders on small cards and placing the deck in the order they will be rolled for/executed. This would, I guess, take the beardy potential out some.

I would prefer to (and will) keep playing WAB, but would be willing to try another game out. That said, I am certainly not going to drop $100+ for rulebooks, etc. for a game I might not even like for a tournament. I would love to see Adepticon drive on with WAB, at least for one of the events. If that becomes impossible, then so be it. I do think we can continue with it, but do see a challenge in gaining new players as time goes on.

I do believe that we need to sort out what is going to done when at Adepticon so foks can figure out what they want to do, etc. As I have said, I am more than willing to run the Friday night big game. I can see some demo type games going on, etc. as well as the singles/doubles.
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Matthias » Thu May 31, 2012 3:11 pm

The Origins Awards are this weekend. Sort of funny that the only GW-related or licensed property nominated is from Warhammer Historical...
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Matt-J2 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:26 pm

So, if folks want to use WAB for Singles and/or doubles, what set of lists is preferred?
Supplements(incl rulebook)
AoA2
Supplements + AoA2 as we did this year



I'm personally leaning away from WAB for Doubles so we get one new event. However, in the unlikely event that WAB gets a living rulebook style update like Blood Bowl, Waraster etc. then I might lean back that way.
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Nostromo » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:11 pm

I am still working on the Living WAB approach. I have contacted a couple authors to see what they think....hoping they are not all as bitter as Allen or maybe Tim!

I would need a lot of help though.

The WAB system itself isnt a breakthrough in gaming by any stretch...but the supplements were nice pieces of gaming.

If anyone is interested in working on this with me, let me know and maybe we can coordinate the effort. We have a lot of intelligent people here!
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby RichN » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:51 pm

How do you expect a living rule book to work? GW will never let you post the actual text from WAB or any of the supplements. Which means you'll need to re-write the product, which makes the whole project 2nd generation material. May as well save yourself a lot of effort and just buy CoE or WAC. There are plenty of WAB players who did not make the change from 1.5 to 2 because of the (relatively minor) changes in the editions. Do you think these sorts of people would be willing to us a fan made rule book?
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Re: Warhammer Historical Closes

Postby Nostromo » Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:38 pm

I guess I think so Rich, as we have a lot of WAB fans here....but doesnt mean I am right!

I just think buying into a copycat (though I must say War and Conquest looks more original....if I could just get beyond the cover art!) doest make much sense as I already own the original.

Any additions we made would be usable in CoE I imagine...except use of characters.
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