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Ally unit selection question

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:09 am
by mikebutcher
If I want to select an allied unit, do I have the follow the ally's army list restrictions.
For example:
AoA2 Berbers can take An-Aldus and (seemly odd) Christian Spain as allies. I am already planning on using a unit of Spanish Spearmen and I would like to use 1 or 2 small Crossbowmen units from the Spanish list to round out my army. According to the Christain Spanish list says that Crossbowmen units cannot out number Miltary Order or Noble Cav units. Now as 35+ point a pop shock cav have no place in my Berber list, am I okay to use the crossbowmen as allies in in my Berber Army.

I am looking for an excuse to convert up some crossbowmen and add some variety to my Wall o' Berbers using an AoA2 lsit...

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:55 am
by RichN
Tricky question - leads into all sorts of slippery slope issues.

I'll look into it and get you an answer.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:46 pm
by Thogrid
Along the same lines as Mike's question Rich...same general lists too...how funny...a buddy here is contemplating playing in the Singles and wants to bring an AoA v2 Al-Andalus list, specifically Taifa Kingdoms (1009-1110). In the Taifa list it allows for up to 50% Cav, 50% Allies and no minimum percentages. Allies are allowed from the North African Berber list...which has Ghuzz Horse Archers under that list's "Allies and Mercenaries" section (part of the Berber list, not a third different list).

He wants to create an all Cav force (apparently you could in El Cid), so he wants to know does he have to follow the general Berber list restrictions in order to bring troops from the Berber list as Allies to his Al-Andalus list...or can he bring 1400 points of Al-Andalus Cav goodness and 1400 points of Berber-Ghuzz Horse Archers?

Thanks Rich!

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:30 pm
by mikebutcher
Thogrid wrote:He wants to create an all Cav force (apparently you could in El Cid), so he wants to know does he have to follow the general Berber list restrictions in order to bring troops from the Berber list as Allies to his Al-Andalus list...or can he bring 1400 points of Al-Andalus Cav goodness and 1400 points of Berber-Ghuzz Horse Archers?

Thanks Rich!


Geez, that's a lot of Horse Archers... :evil

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:51 pm
by Thogrid
mikebutcher wrote:Geez, that's a lot of Horse Archers... :evil


I know! Like 36 of 'em! It doesn't quite feel right to me either...but I'm having a hard time finding where in the rules I can show him he must follow the restrictions in the allied list as well as his primary list.

:roll:

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:01 am
by RichN
The Ghuzz Horse Archers are a 0-1 choice in El Cid - having them be 50% of an army is a bit much.

AoA does not seem to have any written rules about allies. In the case of the Al Andalus, the lists ally with each other - you could have a recursive loop with an army allied to its self.

For the purposes of the Adepticon tournament, Allies will follow the percentage limitations of the owning list and no Allies of Allies. Mercenary troops (such as the Ghuzz) are allowed to be chosen from an allied list.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:10 am
by Thogrid
RichN wrote:The Ghuzz Horse Archers are a 0-1 choice in El Cid - having them be 50% of an army is a bit much.

AoA does not seem to have any written rules about allies. In the case of the Al Andalus, the lists ally with each other - you could have a recursive loop with an army allied to its self.

For the purposes of the Adepticon tournament, Allies will follow the percentage limitations of the owning list and no Allies of Allies. Mercenary troops (such as the Ghuzz) are allowed to be chosen from an allied list.


Perfect Rich! Thanks...I'll relay to Jon. :D

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:26 am
by socalwarhammer
While I may be totally wrong (and a future FAQ may say the exact opposite)...I think you are spot on Rich. An ally force should be a small army unto itself, not just the best units cherry-picked from the ally list.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:07 am
by Lordgoober
For me, the allies I have brought in my AoA Imperial Roman list are the same allies I would have brought in my main rulebook Imperial Roman list, a few units of Barbarian skirmishers (2 10 man slingers, 1 10 man archer). In the AoA book I've just used the Armenian list instead of the barbarians that you would use in the main rulebook.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:03 am
by Thogrid
socalwarhammer wrote:While I may be totally wrong (and a future FAQ may say the exact opposite)...I think you are spot on Rich. An ally force should be a small army unto itself, not just the best units cherry-picked from the ally list.


Oh, I agree Pat...totally. Some of our local guys are very much "black & white" and want to see it written in rules/FAQs is all. I appreciate Rich making the call so I can now relay that to my local guys here that need this sort of thing.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:35 am
by RichN
On a close reading of the Berber list, I've found that Allies are 1 section and that 'Allies & Mercenaries' are a separate section. Only the Other Berber Dynasties have access to Mercenaries (Ghuzz Horse Archers) and have only a 10% allowance. This allows for 280 points (10% of the total 2800 points for the army) to be spent on the Ghuzz, making for a unit of about 8 figures.

Just as a reminder to everyone - the all AoA lists need to be submitted prior to Adepticon to prevent these sorts of interpretation errors.