General 'Big Game' Adepticon X Discussion

In the grim darkness of the past?

Postby Matt-J2 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:37 pm

1st Corps also has a full Successor line. That's where my elephant will be from, I just can't get into the rest of their figures, due to the faces.
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Postby Thogrid » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:42 pm

RichN wrote:Any advice for suitable Seleucids versus Ptolemaics models? I know of Gripping Beast, Foundry, Aventine, Warlord, Battlestandard. Is there a difference between Macedonian and Successor? If so, will it matter?


Hey Rich,

Q1. Old Glory does a Seleucids range: http://oldglory25s.com/index.php?cat_id ... ellenistic - Punic Wars - Seleucids'

There are no scythed chariots in this range though. However, Old Glory does have some scythed chariots in their Gladiator range that might work:

Image

Image

Image

Image

I like the first two myself.


Vendel Miniatures: http://sgmm.biz/macedonians.html

Perhaps, depending on what Gorgon Miniatures does next??? :)

Q2. I'm certainly no expert...and I'm learning more and more as we move forward on this project...but I imagine there might be some, but I don't believe there is enough to make a noticable difference. Perhaps Hank or one of the others more familiar with the Successors might be able to shed more light?

Q3. If there is, I don't think it will matter all that much for our project. :)
Last edited by Thogrid on Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Thogrid » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:42 pm

Matt-J2 wrote:1st Corps also has a full Successor line. That's where my elephant will be from, I just can't get into the rest of their figures, due to the faces.


DOH! I forgot about 1st Corps! :shock: Thanks Matt!

http://www.1stcorps.co.uk/online_shop/i ... 50a77bd0f4

http://www.1stcorps.co.uk/online_shop/i ... th=212_213

They have a scythed chariot model...BTW.
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Postby Nostromo » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:56 pm

I am with Dave-
We need to decide on the period and any optional rules-

If we are recreating the Battle of Gaza in 217 BC (later, possibly w/ Imitation Legions), that would be a different battle force list than the Battle of Gaza in 312 BC vs Demetrius or Successor Civil Wars (Early Loyalist list period).

Either way, no scythed chariots for us from Alexandria. And not many Elephants either...

I am with Matt on 1st Corp- love the Elephants, but the guys are just too chubby in the cheeks....
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Postby Thogrid » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:09 pm

Mike...sorry about that. I missed the thought that you wanted to see the lists...my bad! If you're interested in doing a full army where you can use some of your Greeks so you wouldn't have to do the entire 2,000 points that would be AWESOME!!

Dave...sorry I missed your last post on the thread about "early" versus "later". I simply don't know enough about the period (yet ) to say one way or the other on equipment/figs. I do want to see the game be an "eye candy" magnet so went with the Seleucid versus Ptolemiac match up. So I'm thinking we use what we can and/or find interesting figure wise...and maybe find a battle that fits the figs in a back assward sort of way. I realize this may cause us to see armies on the same side from slighty different periods within the same list, but I want guys to be able to bring an army/list to the big display game that they will be able and want to use down the road...so they are building the force they want to. :)

Here's another thought...both Seleucids and Ptolemaic lists in Jeff's work allow for Galatian allies. Perhaps up to one of the 2,000 point forces per side could be a Galatian force...in addition to any Galatians another player(s) decides to bring as mercanaries from his main list. What would you say to that?
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Postby Thogrid » Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:36 pm

Nostromo wrote:I am with Dave-
We need to decide on the period and any optional rules-

If we are recreating the Battle of Gaza in 217 BC (later, possibly w/ Imitation Legions), that would be a different battle force list than the Battle of Gaza in 312 BC vs Demetrius or Successor Civil Wars (Early Loyalist list period).

Either way, no scythed chariots for us from Alexandria. And not many Elephants either...

I am with Matt on 1st Corp- love the Elephants, but the guys are just too chubby in the cheeks....


Like I've said, need to learn more about this period for sure. I'm open to discussion on the topic of army lists, but still lean toward allowing players to develop the list they want to...as long as their specific list still follows whatever restrictions apply. As Jeff writes:

"The armies in this book are built from specific variants.
Whenever any part of a specified variant list is used, then
all the validations must be enforced for that variant."

As for optional rules, we'll use all three:

PHALANX DISORDER
MASSED PHALANX
SKIRMISHER EVADE
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Postby Matt-J2 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:35 am

The lists are set from 265-46 BC. Earlier Successor armies look more like the Alexandrian Imperial list from AtG, IIRC from J. Jonas website.

My own preference will be from 200-189 BC, because that's the narrow band where both Cataphracts and Indian Elephants are available. :P
However, for the purposes of the big game I can do without one or the other if that's the time frame we're looking at.
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Postby Nostromo » Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:48 am

Sure- lets pick the 11 years that mark the beginning of the decline for Ptolemaic!

This book is different than the earlier version I have- it doesn't have the earlier Civil War period....
and no caltrops for Ptolemaic- I was looking forward to modeling caltrops!

If we mix and match a bit that is fine...
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Postby Matt-J2 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:12 am

Well, ok, I just wanted the pretty toys though! :D
I'm not even sure I can reasonably fit it all in, though, so I likely won't have them for this event. I'll be taking Seleucids for whatever the tourney is though, so maybe for that I will. Not sure at all yet.
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Postby mikebutcher » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:28 am

I will (provided Adepticon is not April 12-15) do Seleucids with a sizable Merc contingent... Will need some advice on list as I not very up on the period... Have to avoid eye-candy over function.
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Postby RichN » Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:04 am

A summary of the current Ancient plans that I emailed to someone - figured I would share with the forum too.

Adepticon is running 2 "big games"* in addition to the 2 tournament.

I (Rich) am running a Crusades game - a fictional take on the period starting with the creation of the Crusader states and running through the time of Saladin. The online campaign will link with this event - web site should launch sometime in June. If you're playing WAB, look to the BTGG, El Cid and Shieldwall for army lists, although home brew Crusader lists are also welcome. The game at Adepticon will probably be played under the new Hail Caesar rules.

Merle from KC is running a Successors WAB big game. Expect lots of pikes, elephants and scythed chariots!

Both the singles and Team events are expected to return for Adepticon 2012. I do need a judge for one of the events & there has been talk of one event being played using the Clash of Empires rule set.

Lots of chatter, lots of excitement about the new rules. I'm willing to listen to all suggestions & nothing is set in stone until the schedule goes live in October.

* Big Games will be pre-planed participation games with 2 teams of 3-5+ players on a 5x12 (or bigger!) table.


For those interested in the Crusades big game, I'm looking for 2 team captains. The captains will work with me and each other, on army list creation, model distribution and general marshaling of the troops during the game itself.
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Postby mikebutcher » Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:41 am

RichN wrote:A summary of the current Ancient plans that I emailed to someone - figured I would share with the forum too.

Adepticon is running 2 "big games"* in addition to the 2 tournament.

I (Rich) am running a Crusades game - a fictional take on the period starting with the creation of the Crusader states and running through the time of Saladin. The online campaign will link with this event - web site should launch sometime in June. If you're playing WAB, look to the BTGG, El Cid and Shieldwall for army lists, although home brew Crusader lists are also welcome. The game at Adepticon will probably be played under the new Hail Caesar rules.

Merle from KC is running a Successors WAB big game. Expect lots of pikes, elephants and scythed chariots!

Both the singles and Team events are expected to return for Adepticon 2012. I do need a judge for one of the events & there has been talk of one event being played using the Clash of Empires rule set.

Lots of chatter, lots of excitement about the new rules. I'm willing to listen to all suggestions & nothing is set in stone until the schedule goes live in October.

* Big Games will be pre-planed participation games with 2 teams of 3-5+ players on a 5x12 (or bigger!) table.


For those interested in the Crusades big game, I'm looking for 2 team captains. The captains will work with me and each other, on army list creation, model distribution and general marshaling of the troops during the game itself.


RichN,
1. Will the Singles event be crusades/Dark Ages/etc. themed as the campaign will be based on that? I ask because I would like to build an El-Cid Berber force (in fact: GB and Musketeer sample minis are on the way!)...
2. Will the two "big games" be concurrent and/or overlap the tournaments?. I do plan to participate in the Successor war game. I think if some of that is laid out early it might help folks lay out what they want to do.
3. Is the basing for Hail Ceaser combatable with WAB and vice versa?

Thanks!
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Postby RichN » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:00 am

1. Singles should stay like this past year with Classical, Dark Age and Open categories.
2. I will do everything I can to prevent all 4 events from overlapping. But it does open the question - do the big games split Friday, or will one start after the Saturday singles and run late into the night.
3. HC is super flexible for basing. Think big units on movement trays. The whole HC system is supposed to be created for easy of play with a focus on good times over most any other consideration.
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Postby Nostromo » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:38 pm

At the risk of over committing myself, I can certainly take a portion of the Big Crusades game. It is one of the periods I have done a decent amount of research on as well as enjoyed historical fiction about.

I have a pretty decent sized force of Crusaders for the era- all Perry's. Except for a smaller unit of later era Crusaders using ebob.
Shawn Welte 's Crusaders (Norman's) were amazing- taking beautiful Perry models and converting them and having them look even better is quite a feat!

My guess is that finding Crusader types will be easier than finding Turks and Mamluks.

My Armenian force could fit for either side. And I am in the process of building up a Sultanate force-

So I could work for either side-

I do plan on running some WWII demos, and maybe another Legends game.
If I could get enough interest I would do a Legends of the Rising Sun tournament- John's High Seas tourney was so fun it made me want to try- and I have plenty of Perry prize support already...
Plus I have another Legends conversion in the works...so many games, so little time.
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Postby Nostromo » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:41 pm

I would like to have Mike B and Shawn W. in the Crusades game as well- (why not WAB?)

If Mike is making a Berber force, they would double very nicely as Sudanese allies for a Mamluk era Egyptian force.
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