Battlefleet Gothic Championships - Who's going to run it?

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Postby Centurian99 » Tue May 13, 2008 9:19 pm

Take my opinions with a grain of salt.

Personally, if you want to encourage the use of escorts, the best way is a carrot, and not a stick approach. Having escorts be vital to accomplishing certain objectives, etc. Strait-jacket restrictions tends to turn people off as much as it attracts people, and generally leads to counterproductive attitudes. The biggest problem with BFG (that I see) is that in a straight-up fight, escorts rarely fulfil a role in a fleet that can't be filled better, with greater resilience, by a light capship.

There's a few exceptions, where escorts add something that the fleet doesn't have (like access to lances in my SM fleet).

So if you want to encourage escort use, I think the best way to do so is to publish your primer missions as early as possible. Which leads to my second point: playtesting the missions.

There's really only one other BFG player where I'm located, and in the last year he's decided that having a child was a good idea. This cut greatly into his available gaming time. ;) My new job didn't help either.

But the missions this year (I'll admit) were not as well-playtested as I would have liked. Things like the resupply mission worked well in the playtesting games that we tried, because it turned out that both sides generally had similar amounts/points of ships with ordinance.

The only way to avoid that in the future is to playtest the heck out the missions...which will almost certainly require widespread distribution in the BFG community. But that will lead to my third observation

Mission structure. The whole tiered Primary and random tiered Secondary objective was one I came up with, in an attempt to add multiple objectives while recognizing that the VP system is far more integral to the BFG rules than it is to the other GW games. That's really going to be your rub. Especially when you consider the Necron fleet, which is pretty much, IMNSHO, only balanced when you consider the wacked out VP table that they have.
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Postby Lordgoober » Wed May 14, 2008 12:06 am

My plans are to run at least 2 full primer tournaments at the chicago bunker itself, probably with the first sometime in august and then a second near the end of the year and if necessary a third in february. The counterpoint to the Eldar MMS idea is well taken into advisement.

Most likely with respect to the Tau list issue, I'm probably going to rule that all Tau use the Armada list even with the forgeworld models since there ISN'T a unified list for the forgeworld stuff. One thing that will be stated in the fleet composition rules will be that Demiurg Bastion class cruisers will be available for non Tau fleets as described in the Demiurg rules section of Armada on page 109. "Any fleet except Orks, Tyranids and Necrons can use Demiurg Bastion class vessels; they are purchased as cruisers but do not contribute to the number of ships required to gain access to battleships, grand cruisers, etc. Demiurg ships can never carry fleet commanders, use fleet commander rerolls or be placed in squadrons with non demiurg ships. Tau fleets (and other races whose fleet list specifically include the Demiurg) ignore these restrictions." Armada 109.

One thing that I'm thinking about for this tournament is possibly having a scenario where there is an active attacker/defender with the attacker having some extra points and the defender having the same amount of points in defenses (no low orbit stuff though) as Defenses are an interesting but not often used thing. How well would that go over? With this scenario though I would put the caveat that the extra points on each side are not an official part of the painting score (kinda like Midwest Rampage's 3rd game Dogs of War unit) but could be considered as part of the player's choice painting.
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Postby Centurian99 » Wed May 14, 2008 12:39 am

I always wanted to do a mission with low-orbit, or an attacker/defender, or an exterminatus. But when in doubt, I tried to always defer to the KISS rule.

Having an attacker/defender list becomes problematic when you have to break it out...you have to be ridiculously careful about which fleet is attacking, which fleet is defending. How do you determine who's the attacker and who's the defender, etc. You'll also make youself hated by the tourney software people, but that's okay. They need more to do. ;)

Looks like its your show now, so all that's up to you...I just get to figure out how to balance a 2250 point Gladiator and make sure that games get finished.

But if you want my advice, here's what I'd say:
#1 - Stick with the VPs as the main battle element. The reason is simply Necrons...that list is pretty much only balanced out when their special VP conditions come into effect.

#2 - On a similar note, missions requiring boarding were something of a no-go, because of fleets that are either immune to boarding or can't board. Not to mention the imbalance that happens when you throw a tyranid fleet on the table.

#3 - I've not found a whole lot of problems with the FW Tau fleet list (downloadable from the FW website), but YMMV. You get to make the call on that one...in case you hadn't figured out, my basic philosophy was generally permissive.

#4 - Objectives (particularly the secondary ones) were something I threw in there for three main reasons. One, I like the idea of each player having potentially different objectives in a battle. Two, a lot of those objectives make disengaging early a bad idea. Three, with the AdeptiCon pseudo-tradition of objective-based missions, I wanted to make sure that the BFG missions were more than just VP-quests.

#5 - come up with a different sportsmanship and theme/paint judging system. Year 1 we used the ranking system, which ended up be great...except for theh bookkeeping nightmare. Year 2, until players choice votes were added, there was very little separation.

#6 - Keep providing opportunities for public displays of ignorance. ;) Best score on the quiz this year was a 6...think you can come up with a harder quiz?

B
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Postby Lordgoober » Wed May 14, 2008 11:41 am

I think so. And on the attacker/defender scenario this is something I JUST came up with (in the shower no less) that might be a decent thing to test out at some point:

A-Con 2009 scenario 2: Blitzkrieg Planetary Raid:

This is an Attacker/Defender scenario. Attacker and defender are decided by the higher of a d6 roll being the attacker with these exceptions. Unless both opponents are using these fleets, Tyranid and Necron fleets must be the attacker for this scenario. The attacker's escort ships in this scenario are doubling as high speed raiding transports attempting to raid the defender's planet for some reason.

Terrain: Large planet in the center of the table, rest of terrain in a mutually agreeable manner. (would plan to have a couple asteroid fields and a moon at every table)

Fleet composition: Each fleet has an extra 250 points to spend on their fleet, the attacker must spend this on escort ships, the defender must spend this on defenses (no low orbit defenses). Defenses can be squadroned if appropriate.

Deployment: Defender places first ship/squadron then alternate as usual.

Victory Conditions: Attacking Escort ships that park themselves in high orbit over the planet and survive a turn give double the victory points for the particular escort to the controlling player. Parking in this case means moving into gravity well range of the planet on a turn, surviving the defender's turn and then not moving on their next turn.

Secondary objectives:

1-2: Warp Rift: As in Adepticons past.

3-4: Destroy the bonus fleet portion: For the attacker, you have to destroy the defender's defenses that have an actual profile with hits (IE you don't count orbital mines and minefields for this objective). 1/2 points for destroying half.

5-6: Something else I haven't thought of yet.
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Postby seahawk » Thu May 15, 2008 10:29 am

Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar (we did have two this year) and Space Marines are also fluffily always attacking. In fact, the only fleets that probably aren't are Imperials and Chaos.

Otherwise looks neat.

Honestly, I vastly preferred this year's method of judging sports and paint. The first year I had a hard time remembering opponents and their fleets and the games at the end of the day when it was time to fill out that part.
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Postby muwhe » Thu May 15, 2008 6:34 pm

Good discussion ..

Additionally folks remember there is also some secondary oversite to all the events at AdeptiCon. It is one of the things that seperates AdeptiCon from a standard convention format.

We are still a good bit away from our first council meeting for 2009. But feel free to contact me regarding BFG.

While nothing is set in stone for next year ... familar faces will most likely be heading up the Open Gaming / Specialist Gaming area.
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Postby RichN » Thu May 15, 2008 7:30 pm

Don't worry Hank.
Lordgoober and I have already been talking.
Terrain, Modeling and More... Chicago Terrain Factory
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Postby Lordgoober » Thu May 15, 2008 10:57 pm

More scenario ideas thought up at the bunker between me, Chad Kimmel, and Steve Gurkhee at the paint bar today.

Scenario 1: Save the Cripple.

Before deployment, each most expensive ship has been wracked by massive explosions and sabotage, crippling it. The ship starts the game being crippled (half hits) and suffering from 2 results of the critical table appropriate to the fleet with these alterations. Ignore any result that is the +1d3 or +1d6 points of damage, also for any result that would have an effect and do +1 damage (IE thrusters damaged etc...) apply the result of the critical but DON'T apply the damage. Finally, this ship cannot repair critical damage this game or disengage except by exiting off the opponent's side of the board.

Major objective: If you get your cripple off the opponent's side of the board by the end of the game, get 200 vp bonus. If it's still alive but on the board then get 100 vp bonus. Opponent gets 200 vp bonus for killing your Crippled ship. Your cripple doesn't count as crippled for standard victory point calcluation.

Minor objectives to be decided later.

Scenario 2: Sink the Bismark

Before Deployment: Find out which player has the most expensive capital ship on the board (including character costs). This ship is the "Bismark."

Victory Conditions: This counteracts standard victory conditions (IE VP differential). Sink the "Bismark." If the "Bismark" is still intact at the end of the game (crippled or not,) the player controlling the "Bismark" wins the game. If the "Bismark" is destroyed, the opposing player wins the game. Play this game to 8 turns or time regardless of whether the "Bismark" is sunk or not.

Minor Victory conditions: VP Win/Loss/Draw

Scenario 3: Ghosts in the Warp

This battle takes place very close to a warp storm or some other phenomenon that makes the warp bleed out more than normal. Spectral ships are appearing everywhere.

Standard scenario with this exception. Should a ship be destroyed and not left as a hulk, instead of removing the ship, the ship becomes spectral as if it was a daemonship. The ship is moved as a spectral daemonship would be with the exception that it cannot come back onto the board. The ship counts as being destroyed for victory point purposes. This happens to all ships that blow up whether they would normally use the Warp or not as a race.

I'm posting these for opinions and for people to freely playtest them.
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Postby seahawk » Fri May 16, 2008 1:16 am

Scenario 1

egh, it's okay, but I don't like forcing it to be the most expensive, especially as it may be crucial to normal fleet tactics (an Emperor class in a gunline, for instance). Why not let the player choose which ship?


Scenario 2

Simple. Effective. I like it.


Scernario 3

Hmm. Daemon ships don't move at all until they translate, and then they become normal ships, so it doesn't work right. And what's the point of them floating around if they don't do anything? Lastly, keeping track of what's still alive and what's destroyed can be problematic (unless people paint up ghost ships). Especially if people are using real daemonships (I might with my Chaos).

Instead of that convolution, how about a different approach to warpy area. My idea is every turn, roll a D6 for each capital ship or squadron. When you get a 5+ stop rolling, and for that unit, they've hit a warp eddy! They are suddenly repositioned 2D6x10cm away in a direction of their choice (or randomize!) facing a direction of their choice.
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Postby Lordgoober » Fri May 16, 2008 1:36 am

Lets take your comments.

Scenario 1: I was telling Chad the same thing about the most expensive ship thing.

Scenario 3: I don't think I was explaining it well but I can understand where you're coming from. I like your secondary idea. That looks like fun. I'll have to playtest that one sometime soon.
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