2008 Gladiator Comment / 2009 Gladiator Planning Thread

The place to discuss all that was! Visit the AdeptiCon website (www.adepticon.org) for past coverage, event results and photos!

2008 Gladiator Comment / 2009 Gladiator Planning Thread

Postby Centurian99 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:08 am

Since I'm now the only two-time Gladiator Champion... ;) I've tentatively discussed with Hank that I can run the Gladiator next year. (Gotta give all the other Gladiator Champs a chance to match me.) Also, that means that someone else is going to need to run the BFG Championships.

Greg Sparks has expressed interested in co-running the even with me, so that'd be two top-tier players who won't be in the running next year.

So we'd like to gather comments from people about the 40K Gladiator...what's worked, what would people like to see, etc.

Here's what definitely won't be changed:
The #1 rule of the Gladiator: No Whining.

Here's what probably won't be changed:
  • The start time of the event. At this point, we have to assume that the Gladiator will start at noon on Friday and go through Friday night.
  • Basic mission structure - the primary/secondary/tertiary missions allow for a good spread in determining the winner.
  • Limited winners: Champion and 2nd in Command will be the only recognized awards.

Now, everything else, as far as I'm concerned, is up for grabs. Greg and I have tossed around some ideas, like:
  • 2250 point armies
  • 2500 point armies
  • Multiple detachments
  • Sideboards
  • Completely modified "gladiator force org" chart


Now, anyone have any comments or suggestions?
Centurian99
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:59 pm

Postby Redbeard » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:47 am

1) the higher point value might require more time per round. Some armies have trouble finishing at 2000.

2) 5th edition may make Primary/Seconday/Tertiary mission objectives quite different. I'd wait to see how that shakes out before coming up with anything definitive.
"All very successful commanders are prima donnas and must be so treated."

George S. Patton
User avatar
Redbeard
 
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:55 am
Location: Homewood, IL

Postby Anaxagoras » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:06 am

I like the 2000 point size-something just great about that round number. Anything bigger would challenge the current time limit.
Anaxagoras
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:39 am
Location: Macomb, Il.

Postby Shotgun » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:13 am

I would say pick an aggressive points size and time scale be damned.

The gladiator is a no whining event.

"I didn't have enough time" is whining.
Shotgun
 
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:44 am
Location: Denver, CO

Postby Ed » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:19 am

I'll take Redbeard's second point a little further. If the rumors pan out, in 5th only infantry troops can capture objectives. How will that be reconciled with Strength D pie plates?

I know I've rambled on this subject ad nauseum, and my prediction was flat out wrong about this most recent Gladiator (I anticipated 10" Str D pieplates in every army).

Ed
Ed
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:08 am

Postby Papa_Nurgle » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:38 am

Point Size: I like 2000 points. It means you still have to pick and choose what to take. It takes a good general to make an army at 2000 points. At 2500 points, you can throw whatever in. At some point, the points are just too big to really be fun. It also means that there are trade offs to bringing forgeworld etc...

Sideboard? It would not increase my desire to go. So everybody has one sideboard of heavy bolters and one of lascannons and missile launchers depending on what they're facing and you bring more points to the tournament and don't get to play with all of them all the time. Personally, if I put paint on something, I want to be able to play with it all the time. (May explain why I paint nekkid)

Modified Force Org chart? Okay. I can see this, especially if the new 5th edition leaves only troops as scoring. I could easily see either allowing more troop choices or counting all infantry as scoring units. Of course, scenario design could always throw the rule book stuff out the window.

I like the gladiator the way it is. 4 games, lots of objectives. May the best man win (and if I'm not there, whoever floats to the top - like a dead bug in cool aid).

Oh. And continue with the scenario that challenges each army type. Balanced armies win, extreme armies are one trick.
Team TnA Founding Member.
WHABSAB!
Every Time you use the word "fluff," a kitten dies.

Purple ticket owner.
Papa_Nurgle
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:38 am

Postby Matthias » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:50 am

I think the Gladiator is most refined of all the AdeptiCon tournaments...simply because of the simplicity of the rules. The Force Org is a valid concern/question but otherwise I think the KISS approach to this event is the best. Put the details in the scenarios and let the event run.

I suppose opinions on point sizes and time limits might have to be revisited post 5th Edition, but I have a feeling 2000 points will still make the most sense given the time frame. Four games is a must in a tournament like this.
User avatar
Matthias
Techpriest
 
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Chicago, IL

Postby Redbeard » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:53 pm

Shotgun wrote:I would say pick an aggressive points size and time scale be damned.

The gladiator is a no whining event.

"I didn't have enough time" is whining.


Sure, but knowing that there is no time limit and that the team tournament starts at 7am, means that there will be less people not whining. It's not about whining at the event, it's about planning beforehand.

If the gladiator goes to 2500 points and is expected to run until 4am, I won't whine, but I won't buy a ticket either. Being that tired the next day just doesn't do it for me. Other's millage may vary, but I'd expect to see a marked decrease in participation, or people dropping out entirely if they're out of it in two rounds, in order to get sleep for the TT the next day.
"All very successful commanders are prima donnas and must be so treated."

George S. Patton
User avatar
Redbeard
 
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:55 am
Location: Homewood, IL

Postby Brian » Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:43 pm

I think it runs pretty well at 2000 points. At that level you can bring a titan or gargantuan in the 500-750 point range but you need to have your shit together with your other list selections to be able to support it well enough to win games.

Instead of a sideboard maybe you could allow each player to have a Bullpen.

Each player may have a list of X number of non-HQ units in their "bullpen." At deployment a player may choose to deploy a bullpen unit instead of one of their regular units. The bullpen unit must have an equal or lesser points cost than the unit it's relieving. Once a unit has been "relieved" in this way it is out of the tournament and may not be used again. Only one unit per game may be relieved in this way. The substitution may not result in an illegal force org chart.

Maybe allow the opposing player to score an extra battle point or two if the opponent has to bring a unit on in relief.

This could create some interesting situations and avoid the obvious problem with sideboarding. If I see that I'm facing Monterrey Jack and his queso skillet of doom army and I decide to take out my lascannon devs to replace them with plasma cannon devs I had better be god damned sure that I won't need those lascannon devs later in the day.

I fear that it's overly complex when you start factoring in things like reserves but, hey, the thread is for new ideas, right?

Besides, I want to see the look one someone's face when someone decides to do a crazy substitution like a warhound titan coming in to relieve big father Nurgle (the 777 point forge world one.)
User avatar
Brian
 
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:59 pm
Location: Chicago (Logan Square)

Postby Blackmoor » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:16 pm

My big concern is time.

It is really hard to get 6 turns in against a horde army. Add to it is that they have a lot of objective missions in the Gladiator, and that is going to be trouble. It takes 6 turns to reduce a horde army to where you can beat it in an objectives mission. You think that 2.5 hours is enough, but it ends up being even shorter with 25 mins. on the clock you might not get another turn because it takes so long to do one.

Also the Gladiator is where you have all of the trial rules and Forgeworld where you need to take additional time at the being of the game to go over everything. If my opponent is fielding a Giant Barbed Digglypuff, I need to go over all its rules, and that might take a while.

The Gladiator starts at 12:00pm, it can’t start any earlier? Like 11:00am?

You have to take the day off anyways, and if you are flying in from the west coast you have to come in on Thursday. If you are on the east coast you can still make it. I flew in from Jacksonville on a flight that left at 7:00am and with the time change I was at the hotel at 9:30am.

People who are driving will have to leave one hour earlier.

Or maybe just start it at 10:00am (or 9:00am) and that way it will end a lot earlier for socializing and people can also rest up for the Team Tournament.
Blackmoor
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:15 pm

Postby muwhe » Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:56 am

Moving the start time up for events starting on Friday is certain up for discussion. In a weekend cram full of games and tight for time .. any time we can utilize is fair game.

The question is how many people are still flying in Friday morning?


As for time the Ard boy events at 2.5k ran in 2.5 hours without much of a hitch.

Couple things .. I think 5th edition is going to be a quicker game, Why the forgeworld stuff adds some complexity. They also eat up points meaning less units and can remove mass amounts of opponents models. If anything they are a wash or quicker.. Ie: everyone I saw running titans finished well in advance of the end time.

The question would be at 2.5k how many pure horde armies would you see? Does another 500 points mean Alex is just bringing another 50 boyz?
muwhe
AdeptiCon Oracle
 
Posts: 781
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:15 pm

Postby Redbeard » Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:45 am

muwhe wrote:The question would be at 2.5k how many pure horde armies would you see? Does another 500 points mean Alex is just bringing another 50 boyz?


If multiple org charts are allowed, and it's actually 60 for 500 points. :)
"All very successful commanders are prima donnas and must be so treated."

George S. Patton
User avatar
Redbeard
 
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:55 am
Location: Homewood, IL

Postby Primarch » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:25 am

The only thing about the Gladiator that I'd change is the Apoc rules. In the past, I brought "regular" lists and was at least competitive with them, but when my Eldar ran into a Stompa, it killed 1 Falcon, 1 Fire Prism, and Eldrad on turn 1.


Not very much fun for me. Of course, thems the breaks in the gladiator, but just prefer it the other way, when regular armies could be competitive.



Clay
Primarch
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:16 pm

Postby Centurian99 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:55 pm

Well, if start time is variable, a 10AM reg/11AM start, or a 9AM reg/10AM start is definitely doable, and allows us to increase game length to 2 hours 30 min or even possibly 2 hours 45 min fairly easily.

Apoc rules are here to stay...that's part of the fun of the Gladiator. Only half of the Gladiator champions even used forgeworld, and only one used significant (More than 1/3 of their army's points).

Modified force orgs, multiple force orgs, total points, sideboards, bullpens, etc. are all on the table.
Centurian99
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:59 pm

Postby Primarch » Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:23 pm

Its part of the fun of the Gladiator? This is the first year it was used. Im not sure how the history of Adepticon Gladiator was based on something that just got introduced.


Its fine if it stays, but if you cant bring something big, the likelihood of winning is very, very low.


Guess i will either not play, or start working on something APOC style, on a side not, since not all the Apoc rules were used, i dont think that was very fair either. I would say put in full APOC, or increase the points, a Stompa wasnt meant to be in a 2k point game.



Clay
Primarch
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:16 pm

Next

Return to AdeptiCon 2008

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron