New CONSTRUCTIVE comments Team Tournament thread

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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:49 pm

xNickBaranx wrote:Another crazy option would be something similar to Apocalypse style deployment where deployment cannot exceed lets say 15 minutes or 20 minutes, and anything remaining at the buzzer gets thrown into reserves.



This would be a great idea for the Team Tournament.
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Postby Lord Alakinsky » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:54 pm

There are a lot of people who come in from out of town, like me and my friends. We had 1 person from Hawaii, 2 from Utah, and 1 from Washington state (me!). We didn't get in until late Friday night so the cafeteria had run out of cool trays for us to use to transport armies from table to table. Additionally, our display board for the team tournament was kinda bulky and made up of 2 18"x24" sections, so only 2 of us could have used that for transporting armies around the 40K championships on Sunday anyway. And, since we're flying in instead of driving and space is at a premium for us, bringing a different army for each tournament we're playing in along with a display base for each army is a virtual impossibility.

If Adepticon is going to remain a nationwide event, steps must be taken to ensure out-of-towners have a chance of competing, whether it is theme or set-up or judging how long we take to unpack our armies after each game and set-up for the new one. Otherwise, make Adepticon a cool locals tournament and snub out-of-town people on purpose so we all know we shouldn't come back. Just try to remember to take all sides of an issue into account.

Thank you!
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Postby Primarch » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:57 pm

My idea was not to limit all turns, but at some breaking point in the round, say you've played 2 turns in almost 2 hours, something has to give. So put a timer out at anything less than turn 4 at 2 hours, to get you to turn 5, then go back to normal turns.


Something along those lines anyway.



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Postby Centurian99 » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:50 pm

While I love the worked up army displays and thematic stuff...

I think there should be some hard-and fast guidelines and stuff. For example, army display boards should have size limits that are posted as part of the rules for the TT - 24" x 24", or 24" x 18" per player or whatever. It should definitely be of a size that's "air-portable". Both this year and last year, DD1 had personal army display boards that were 18"x14", and that was enough space for each army.

The Sabol guys display was exceptionally cool, as was Glance's eldar warpgate...but there's absolutely no way that someone not driving in could compete with that in terms of scale.

I'm all for encouraging creativity and effort, but some rules on max size would help by setting some boundaries.

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Postby malfred » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:33 pm

Does theme have to be judged during the event? You could setup around
the convention hall and have team tournament attendees given ballots for a
a popular vote (perhaps just one portion of theme).

Judges get a four hour block.

Attendees get eye candy. Well, unless people are posing as shirtless
something or others. Then it's eye stabbers.
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Postby Matthias » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:05 am

Centurian99 wrote:While I love the worked up army displays and thematic stuff...

I think there should be some hard-and fast guidelines and stuff. For example, army display boards should have size limits that are posted as part of the rules for the TT - 24" x 24", or 24" x 18" per player or whatever. It should definitely be of a size that's "air-portable". Both this year and last year, DD1 had personal army display boards that were 18"x14", and that was enough space for each army.

The Sabol guys display was exceptionally cool, as was Glance's eldar warpgate...but there's absolutely no way that someone not driving in could compete with that in terms of scale.

I'm all for encouraging creativity and effort, but some rules on max size would help by setting some boundaries.

Bill


I said this last year. Something that should be addressed for sure. Sooner or later we will have 20 or 30 teams showing up with 4x8 display boards...there just won't be the room.
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Postby Matthias » Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:13 am

Lord Alakinsky wrote:If Adepticon is going to remain a nationwide event, steps must be taken to ensure out-of-towners have a chance of competing, whether it is theme or set-up or judging how long we take to unpack our armies after each game and set-up for the new one. Otherwise, make Adepticon a cool locals tournament and snub out-of-town people on purpose so we all know we shouldn't come back. Just try to remember to take all sides of an issue into account.


I am not sure I understand this. Keep in mind...Theme is only in the Team Tournament and theme is a very loose concept. A massive 4x8 display board was judged as one item and one item only per the theme rules. Shirts could have been another item. Prsented Army list another. Banner another. All are capable or earning the same amount of points in the end. A 4'x8' display base can earn a maximum of 7 points. T-shirts...a maximum of 7 points.

My point is - there were plenty of ways to get theme points that did not require you to lug in a sheet of plywood. Points were capped to accomodate for this very thing. We recognized the out of town issue a couple of years back.

Like it or not - Theme as a concept is here to stay...that said, the 2009 theme system will be heavily discussed in the months to come and in the end we hope it will be a much more transparent system.
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Postby Turtle » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:09 am

after some thought and consideration, I have come to the conclusion that i dont agree with restricting display board sizes. at first i was for it, they take up way too much room. Someone coming from out of town cant really bring one in with them etc... there are a bunch of negatives to not restricting them.

BUT...

thats what sets adepticon apart. People come to adepticon to check out people going nuts for the team tournament, after all who here thought the sabol guys board was impressive? I'm assuming almost everybody did, and if we restrict the sizes the really cool stuff like that is going to disappear.( On a side note I believe they brought it from georgia) After we restrict display boards, what next then? we restrict banners cause some people cant sew, it can be a slippery slope once you start restricting things like that.

After all if we don't have all the nutty people building giant display boards or having crazy team spirit gear what really sets adepticon apart from a grand tournamen?
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Postby Matthias » Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:15 am

And therein lies the conflict.

On one had it by default benefits people who live within driving distance of the convention, they take up a ton of space, etc but on the other hand it truly is a unique feature of AdeptiCon that people really enjoy seeing.

The generic answer is to restrict the size to something manageable - say not to exceed 4' x 4' or something. Let people still go wild within those confines, but still have it be large enough to allow spectacle. The other approach does not impose size limitations but points limitations when it comes to theme. That is: A display base, no matter how massive and insane it is, can only be worth X number of points. Then you add additional prize categories like Best Displayed Army or maybe even a Player's Choice. Most of the latter was put into motion this year instead of display base limits.

Either way I don't think we want to limit the unique spectacle aspect of AdeptiCon at all. There are legitimate logistical concerns as well as legitimate fairness concerns. Somewhere in the middle is where we should aim.
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Postby GregSwanson » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:29 am

I agree with Matt we definitely don't want to limit the spectacle. However I think that is even more reason to have hard categories for theme. Have like 8 categories. Army fit togetherness ( for lack of a better word), costumes, lists, bases, like painting etc.. Then maybe have a category for misc. and then maybe a judges discretion points. Let every one have the same max points going in. That way people that don't have a lot of time or are unskillled on some areas, or far away can make choices. Also maybe we need to have a set time for the judge to stay at each army. I know team drop pod cheese was upset because they felt the judge took one minute and moved on. They had built a themed base based on the Isstavan massacre, had a printed out on special paper army list and fluff, they had a banner and shirts. They started into their speil and the judge basically siad I get it four drop pod armies and moved on. They were upset. They had spent a lot of time and effort and felt it was for nothing. They had went back last year and tried to laddress any deficiencies. Maybe a posted judging criteria will giove people more of an idea of where to start. Also as an aside even though they did a great job and put a lot of time into it I dont feel their army fit the theme and mood if 40K. A beerfest with a dreadnought tending bar? It is just my opinion though.
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Postby xNickBaranx » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:54 am

GregSwanson wrote:Army fit togetherness ( for lack of a better word).


Army Cohesion or Army Cohesiveness would be what you were shooting for, haha.
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