Questions, Concerns, and Suggestions

[Primarch]

Those theme points really add up! My team lost the overall TT title by 1 point, and the only area we were really down to the overall winners was our theme score.

The one thing that confused me, was the difference in scoring from last year. For example, our team had a horrible paint job last year and scored a 31 for painting. We had barely painted display boards, and scored a 35 in theme.


This year, our paint job, was WAY better than last(having learned our lesson) and yet we only scored a 34 for painting. While we didnt have a combined display board, something you CANNOT win the TT without, we added a Banner, a huge fluff packet, and alot of other things, and somehow, we only scored a 26 on theme this year.


In a nutshell, we put in alot more effort on painting and theme this year, and scored lower overall. Our battle points put us in contention, but wasnt enough to overcome such a low theme score.


If someone in the know could explain a little bit of that to me, we might have a better shot at fixing it for next year.


As for everything else, love Adepticon, and we will be back every year, even though not everything was perfect, its by far the best event in the country.

One day, the original team from Atlanta, will win that TT, bet on it.



Clay

[Nidzilla517]

I played an ork army with less models than my Tyranid army. 1 troop choice and one Elite squad made into a troop. Don't ask me how that worked, but 5 scoring units.

Troops are troops dude, regardless of how they became that way. The rules specified 1-3, and he too 2. How can you have the audacity to ding a person for taking MORE than the minimums. Knowing that they had to be Nobz or Mega-Nobz, they aren't the best choice anyway, so you dinged them for taking sub-optimal units! More boyz would have been a better choice, and made for a slower game.

And it sounds like you're playing "Big Bugs", guessing from your user-name and description above. If so, you've got a pair made of brass to be complaining about other peoples army composition.

[/quote]

Actually, I don't play the 6 Carnies like a can because that is not my kind of game. I like troops and I try and get as many as possible. I felt I needed Some Carnies just to handle all of the tanks I was seeing in the last years. I guess when I found out I was playing a second army with very high strength and few models, I was pissed. I got slammed by the Imperial Fists and if it wasn't for only getting in 5 turns, I am sure he wouldv'e finished me off with the Orks. NExt year it all about winning!!!!! No more trying to make it FUN!!!! I saw way too many over-the-top armies out there and I think I played 2 of them.

[Nidzilla517]

I had been told by several people I know that have been to multiple adepticons that alot of the really nice, larger, eye catching displays have been there for 2,3, or 4 years. Know I understand that these armies/bases were awesome, but to me, re-using the same bases/armies year after year should not continue to generate high scores, especially if the same people judge it every year. I do understand that they could have gone back and touched up paint jobs, added new models etc.... But it is still the same thing and IMO shouldn't keep getting high scores if its used year after year.

Admittedly, I thought along similar lines at first. However, each team/army is judged on the merit of the paint/appearance it represents and is scored using the same guidelines that every other team/army is subject to. If it ranks top marks then it deserves top scores. The amount of time and effort that was put in to make the army look as good as it does is not lessened by bringing it back for a second or even a third year. If it deserves the highest scores based on the current guidelines for paint/appearance then the team should get those scores.

Every year we see the quality of army appearance increase. Could it also be considered a disadvantage to bring the same army 2 years in a row? Everyone else saw what it looked like last year and knows what it will take to not only score higher in painting/appearance, but also how best to handle it on the tabletop (I know I built a list that could specifically handle multiple light armored vehicles since that was what won last year). Teams run this risk when they bring the same army from year to year. When the Bulls ran off 6 championships with virtually the same 5 starters, they beat the odds. Same would go for teams at Adepticon. Is the Best in Show dog from the Westminster barred from competing or winning that award again?

If an army has already won a major award it should be retired.


I agree with that. The Team that won last year or GD was there with the same list. Nothing like abusing the game.
G

[WC_Al]

Economy of scale does start to kick in, though, Fred. With the event as large as it is, it will limit which venues can fit us in. But at the same time, we represent a fairly substantial block of room nights, and we use up ballroom space on a weekend (most business events tend to use up Tuesday-Thursday). That's leverage, and it can be used.

I'd imagine someone on the council has some information on room usage - e.g., how many rooms were part of the Adepticon "block" over the past 3 years, how often did the block sell out/need expansion, etc. Take that, plus flat attendance rates (which correlate to local concession sales, in a manner which any hotel should already be aware), and it's a chunk of business nearly any venue would love to have. Especially annually, and particularly if Adepticon was willing to sign to a multi-year scenario.

Just a few thoughts on this.

The hotel rate of $99 a night and $10 a day parking is a substantial discount. I stayed at the same place last year attending the Chicago GT - paid more for the room and $20 a day for parking if memory serves.

Any hotel big enough to hold something like this is gonna have the big hotel issues - high expenses for everything.

The only idea might be something further from the airport - but that hurts those flying in.

My thoughts - keep it where it's at. Hat's off to the guys running it! Thanks!

[Inquisitor_Malice]

If an army has already won a major award it should be retired.

I agree with that. The Team that won last year or GD was there with the same list. Nothing like abusing the game.

That's not even close to abusing the game. A winning team should not have to retire a list or army just because they won with it. This isn't about making these competitions so that every joe can win an award each year just to make them feel good.

You know the bar that has been set. So get out there and earn it.

[xNickBaranx]

I also find it funny that people are complaining about the price of parking when a lot more are paying to fly in from across the country and others drive 10+ hours to get to Adepticon. Be thankful that you only have to pay a few dollars to park, instead of what others have to pay to attend the best Game Workshop event in the country. .

But what if those people flying across the country are also renting a car and getting hit twice? Same for those that drove 10+ hours. They're both getting murdered.

I flew to my first Adepticon 3 years ago before I lived here. I used to be able to fly one way to Chicago from DC on Independence Air for the same amount I paid for parking this past weekend. Just saying.

Regardless, the park and ride suggestion is a good one and I'll be using it next year after I unload my stuff.

[thehod]

I wanna give a big thanks to Rich Nelson for basically a thankless job as from what I saw, dude you never stopped more than 10 min to enjoy much.

[Nidzilla517]

If an army has already won a major award it should be retired.

I agree with that. The Team that won last year or GD was there with the same list. Nothing like abusing the game.

That's not even close to abusing the game. A winning team should not have to retire a list or army just because they won with it. This isn't about making these competitions so that every joe can win an award each year just to make them feel good.

You know the bar that has been set. So get out there and earn it.

I guess I think that it would be a bigger challenge to the TEam to come up with another list that will also win a Tourney. That is my thinking. My TEam has been in 4-5 Adepticon Tournies and we have always used different armies, just to keep it interesting. Not only to challenge ourselves, but to keep it interesting for the game. PLaying different armiy lists is always a challenge for me. Considering I am not a 24-7 player like some of the players. In the 40k, I always play Nids, but I usually change my list year to year. Even though last year I did pretty well with that list. I guess what I am saying is...Winning ISN'T everything!!!

[Centurian99]

I have to say...why is this suddenly an issue that a team is using the same army?

[Ed]

I have to say...why is this suddenly an issue that a team is using the same army?

Some people will search high and low for something to complain about...

Ed
Two Tau, One Cup - Best Heretical Team 2008

[Inquisitor_Malice]

I guess I think that it would be a bigger challenge to the TEam to come up with another list that will also win a Tourney. That is my thinking. My TEam has been in 4-5 Adepticon Tournies and we have always used different armies, just to keep it interesting. Not only to challenge ourselves, but to keep it interesting for the game. PLaying different armiy lists is always a challenge for me. Considering I am not a 24-7 player like some of the players. In the 40k, I always play Nids, but I usually change my list year to year. Even though last year I did pretty well with that list. I guess what I am saying is...Winning ISN'T everything!!!

That is a choice that you actively make. Not all players wish to make a brand new army each year. A team spends several hundred hours making their army, display board and other peripherials. If they choose to use it again after they win, then so be it. To choose to use a different force each year is entirely a personal choice.

Finally, ending a post with 'Winning ISN'T everything!!!' means absolutely nothing. Whether you play to win or not is your choice and yours alone.

[Green Blow Fly]

I mis phrased my post above. What I meant to say is that if a team has already won an award with the same armies while they can certainly bring it again they should not win awards for theme or appearance. Other events also have this as a criteria and it makes good sense to me. Others feel the same. If you see people winning awards again with the same armies (albeit some mods) I think it puts a damper on other attendees' enthusiasm in terms of the desire to build new beautiful armies. In this spirit I openly applaud Hank for refusing one of the awards.

G

[artificer]

I mis phrased my post above. What I meant to say is that if a team has already won an award with the same armies while they can certainly bring it again they should not win awards for theme or appearance. Other events also have this as a criteria and it makes good sense to me. Others feel the same. If you see people winning awards again with the same armies (albeit some mods) I think it puts a damper on other attendees' enthusiasm in terms of the desire to build new beautiful armies. In this spirit I openly applaud Hank for refusing one of the awards.

G

or you could look at it this way...
the bar was set by Army Y in 200X. People should be prepared to out-do Army Y (both in painting, theme, and gaming) in 200X+1.

If army Y wins an award again in 200X+1, I'd argue that nobody got 'over the bar'.

Do prize fighters retire the instant they win the belt..?

[Green Blow Fly]

In terms of prize fighters you are comparing apples to oranges. Who can say which were truly the best looking armies? Judging theme and appearance are subjective. That is just the way it is with those types of awards and I have no problem with that at all. The thing is it could be looked at as favoritism for the home teams when the same armies win awards back to back. I am not suggesting that is the case, however this is one reason why some events don't allow it.

G

[Nidzilla517]

I guess I think that it would be a bigger challenge to the TEam to come up with another list that will also win a Tourney. That is my thinking. My TEam has been in 4-5 Adepticon Tournies and we have always used different armies, just to keep it interesting. Not only to challenge ourselves, but to keep it interesting for the game. PLaying different armiy lists is always a challenge for me. Considering I am not a 24-7 player like some of the players. In the 40k, I always play Nids, but I usually change my list year to year. Even though last year I did pretty well with that list. I guess what I am saying is...Winning ISN'T everything!!!

That is a choice that you actively make. Not all players wish to make a brand new army each year. A team spends several hundred hours making their army, display board and other peripherials. If they choose to use it again after they win, then so be it. To choose to use a different force each year is entirely a personal choice.

Finally, ending a post with 'Winning ISN'T everything!!!' means absolutely nothing. Whether you play to win or not is your choice and yours alone.

Several Hundred hours??? come on..are you kidding me??? I can see making the board, but the list?

I guess opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got one.

I forgot the winner gets What??? more models?