squats

Discussion concerning the latest version of the Epic 40K game system.

squats

Postby Shaggrudd Dethblasta » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:21 pm

Okay, yes I had a bad game against that squat list of Robert's, however there are some serious problems with that list. First off, that particle field that the squat war engines have is a little rediculous. One thing I realized later on is you could never get rid of the field with a critical hit like you can Eldar Holocaust fields. I also think they should have void shields like they originally had.

Finally, those molemortars are way too under priced. Robert had two of those units that could generate 9 bp's giving him three templates, two extra blast markers, that has disrupt for 350 pts. No way.

The amount of firepower as well as the transport capacity of the gorgons is too much for only 40 pts. My battlewagons can transport only two stands plus a grot, has a lousy gun, 5+ save and is 35pts. These gorgons have a 4+ reinforced armor save, a three maybe four stand transport capacity, and good weaponry for 40pts a vehicle. Personally I believe they should be at least 100pts.

Honestly, that's a list that needs a lot more playtesting.
"Why can't you dig how beautiful and righteous it is", Oddball
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Postby Spectrar Ghost » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:37 pm

Just posted this to Taccoms. Revision of my initial PM to Rob.

Find the list here:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/index.cgi?act=ST;f=86;t=13404
or PM me for a Word doc

First, Particle Shielding. Get rid of it, replace it with Void Sheilds like an STC based culture should have.

The tunneler entry in the army list is unclear as to how many formations of tunnelers can be taken, and who can do so.

The Tunnelers special rule is in need of clarification: How do you deal with the transit time (ie when do you start)? What happens if you fail the Init roll? What if you do not want to tunnel (ie destroyed rigs breaking up a formation)? Why do they get CC and FF stats and how do they move after surfacing? There would be a great deal of simplification if they had no FF or CC except on the Rigs, and the transported formation was simply allowed to Engage out of them, as if teleporting.

Overlord Airship. A DC3 WE Skimmer with 2 battlecannon shots and 2 autocannon shots with AA for 200pts? And it drops bombs? With bomb bays it should count as always popped up; yes it's a game, but you wouldn't want to drop bombs from under the treetops, and couldn't get 15cm range if you did. Price @300 min. Compare to Eldar Scorpion SHGT. +20% save chance (75% vs ~55%), Fearless, Immune to Crossfire, drops a template if you do kill it.

Goliath macrocannon has a range not divisable by 15cm. not a huge thing, but against convention.

Land Trains
If land trains lose the engine, they still get 2/3 the speed? If you aren't gonna stop em dead, make it a 5cm move. Not clear how they are treated: Each car is a WE that must remain in base contact with the leading and following cars? Clarification needed.

Why do all land train cars have 4+ FF and 4+ CC? A single autocannon on a 2DC WE does not justify 4+ FF, and 4 Sandhogs do not justify 4+ CC - they also get their attacks. Most of these cars justify 6+ FF 6+ CC, The Engineer should have 5+ FF with the Autocannon equivalent, the Dragon 4+ FF. I understand that this is the Titan Equivalent in the army, but that does not justify the FF/CC stats. It’s a tank. No feet to stomp, no arms to crush, most weapons are conveniently pointed at the car in front instead of the enemy beside you.

These following suggestions are based on keeping the current CC/FF stats (see above).

Dragon Car. Let's min-max. For 650pt I get 12 demolisher shots on 11DC of 4+ RA, Thick Rear Armor, Fearless doom? Worth 150-175 a car.

Roadmaker. Full train 750points, 15 BP. Almost comparable to IG arty until you realize (again) 4+RA, TRA, Fearless, 11x 4+FF, 11x 4+CC. vs 5+ Armor, 9x 5+FF, 9x 6+CC. Its an Arty. Company that you can't roll over in Engage. Worth 150-175 a car.

Pilum. Full train 750. Leave it @ 125, though if you shoot your 15BP Macro Barrage at 300cm (or 12 BP TK(1) @ unlimited), you still have an engage monster left over.

Engineer. Probably an OK price, maybe a bit much for the firepower it adds. Call it 175-200. But really, what this train needs is more (as many as 32x more) 4+ CC attacks? Again, fix the base stats and the cost goes down and this car is a more needed option. Right now it’s really expensive gravy.
SG

Epic: Armageddon
Are you a soldier, or are you a general?

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Postby Lordgoober » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:55 pm

As I said to nat in the pm response I gave him.

A: I agree with the +25 for each mole mortar. We'll give that a test at some point, OR keep them as is but remove the Disrupt.

B: Definitely replace all particle shields with standard void shields. 3 each for the Big Guys, 2 for engine + 1 per battlecar for the land train.

We'll have to do a bit more work on this list. It has potential. I won't have them available for Adepticon.
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Postby Spectrar Ghost » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:03 pm

Keep the disrupt on the Moles. It's fluffy. The extra cost should offset it.

Voids. Yes to 3,2,1. Thurrgrimms has a special rule that the shields overlap on the land train, so you knock down the all the train's shields, then start taking damage. Could be interesting.
SG

Epic: Armageddon
Are you a soldier, or are you a general?

Ghost's Tiny Rat Farm, a blog of Warmaster Skaven
Ghost's Necro Terrain, Urban Madness in 28mm
Nat's Blog-o-Stuff, where everything else goes
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Postby Lordgoober » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:17 pm

THe Demiurg list was a combination of all 3 different squat lists. I'm heading out to the store so I'll be back in a little while. At points during this week we should work on changes. I could easily see 80 points for gorgons or changing the mine launchers to maybe a 5+/6+.
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Postby Spectrar Ghost » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:35 pm

A Leman Russ only costs 65 or 66.66 depending on how you buy it. 2BP @ 15cm and a 15cm AP5+ IC? 60pt is a good starting point, IMO. Especially if you make the leap to Walker from ignores dangerous terrain.
SG

Epic: Armageddon
Are you a soldier, or are you a general?

Ghost's Tiny Rat Farm, a blog of Warmaster Skaven
Ghost's Necro Terrain, Urban Madness in 28mm
Nat's Blog-o-Stuff, where everything else goes
Spectrar Ghost
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:38 pm
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Postby Lordgoober » Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:00 pm

Ok. Based on the feedback we're already getting from taccoms already lets try a couple different things the next time I use the squats.

A: 6 Mole Mortars = 350 points, 9 = 500 points.

B: Gorgons at 60 points with walker.

We'll see what else needs to be done with them at this point.

However I think I'm going to put the squats on the shelf until after Adepticon and focus on getting my Steel Legion and Lost and the Damned done instead.
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