Core units

Discussion concerning the latest version of the Epic 40K game system.

Core units

Postby Shaggrudd Dethblasta » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:05 am

I was giving some thought about advice to give to new players on what initially to collect for there armies and here are some thoughts.

For IG I would start out with one artillery company, one tank company and one regimental company. Orks should have about roughly at least 25% of their points being warbands. Space marines can't go wrong with taking a healthy dose of Tactical detachments. Eldar should, in my opinion, have a good mix of aspects and guardian units. Any thoughts? [/u]
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Postby Spectrar Ghost » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:10 am

These are all good suggestions.

I think the two factors to consider here are startup cost and force size. How much can a new player be expected to drop on an army? How many points is a good size to start at? 2k will allow enough activations to get the feel of a larger game, so we can start there. I will leave more detailed analysis of Orks and SM to players with a better knowlege of them, but:

Eldar:
2 Warhost boxes, 2 Wave Serpent blisters, and 1 Avatar blister. $99.50
Makes 1 Avatar, 1 Wraithgate, 4 Guardian Warhosts, with enough Wraithguard to upgrade 1, 2 Aspect Warhosts, with Serpents for 1, 1 Ranger Troupe, and 2 Windrider troupes, if you go 2/base. 2100pt total.

IG build 1:
1 Character Pack, 1 Infantry box, 1 Tank Coy, 1 Arty Coy, 1 Chimaera Blister. $171.75.
Makes 1 Regimental HQ (commisar option), 1 Infantry Coy (Snipers and Ogryns,commisar option), 1 Tank Coy, 1 Arty Coy. 2150pt total.

IG build 2:
2 Infantry box, 1 Arty Coy, 1 Chimaera Blister. $122.50.
Makes 1 Regimental HQ (commisar option), 3 Infantry Coy (Snipers and Ogryns,commisar option), 1 Arty Coy. 2200pt total.

These are fairly well rounded and easy to bring up to 3k. The IG build 1 suffers in cost, but build 2 is somewhat less, if somewhat less capable, IMO.

Nat
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Postby Spectrar Ghost » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:33 pm

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Postby Shaggrudd Dethblasta » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:02 pm

That is actually a interesting and valid approach to core units, looking at their cost in money. One question I have about your calculations was if you were looking at GW vehicles or Forge World? Going the FW route is actually cheaper than GW. For example, three Baneblades cost around $60 with GW whereas FW costs only $35 and that was before the exchange rate drop in price for FW.

As I am an avid irk player, I can possibly give some ork advice. Personally, I am not a fan of a footy army as they are portrayed in 40k. I grew to love orks during the "ere we go" codex. Consequently, my entire ork army is mechanized. That tends to make the army more expensive, but far more powerful just in their speed.

Go big or go home. Big units but not too big. Go mechanized whenever possible. Think like an ork. Do that, and you can't go wrong.
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Postby Spectrar Ghost » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:40 pm

I pulled prices from the SG site. If you wanted to go with the low cost approach, use GHQ. I could get the same IG army up and running for (GHQ product code in parentheses):

Build 1: 10 GHQ T-80 (W45), 10 GHQ BMP-2 (W35), 10 GHQ M109A6 Paladin (N118), 1 SG Infantry box, 1 SG Character Pack. $99.45

Build 2: 10 GHQ BMP-2, 10 GHQ Paladin, 2 SG Infantry Boxes. $79.80

The GHQ is slightly smaller than most Epic, but closer to being in scale then most Squat vehix. That and you have to use your imagination to match the weapons loadouts. On the other hand, they are much better detailed than comparable SG minis.

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Postby Oddball » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:06 pm

Another thing to consider, price-wise, is that Forge World has ceased (temporarily?) making a lot of their basic Epic IG vehicles, namely Chimeras and basic LeMan Russ tanks. Their Manticore vehicles are in stock, for example, but the Manticore platform is not.

And a number of their remaining vehicles/aircraft for other races are listed as either 'OUT OF STOCK', or 'TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE'. As to whether FW will redo the molds for them, or are just no longer doing them isn't clear.

So for now, best bets are the SG line.


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Postby Shaggrudd Dethblasta » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:08 pm

Actually, FW is redoing the line. Another company was actually producing the Epic minis for FW, and things fell through, hence the sudden end of Epic minis. Last I heard, FW is redoing the line and they look great. The change doesn't surprise since the rumors are that FW will be taking over all the specialist games. I'm curious about the end result. We shall see.

Nat, I really don't think GHQ minis will work. Honestly, that's taking the "counts as" rule a little too far.
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Postby Spectrar Ghost » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:49 pm

At the risk of hijacking the thread, I don't see how. While I appreciate that the counts as rule was added so OOP models could be used, I see little differance between using EW or DRM minis as Necron, and using GHQ as IG. Sure, I can get IG models elsewhere, but I simply don't have the money to pay $80 for 17 tanks in 6mm scale. I can get 20 for $40, and make sure that I match form and function as best as possible. As long as I am consistant, and make the opponent aware, I'm not sure where the objection lies.

Plus they look really good now they're painted...

Anyway, back to the original topic. I think this is a productive train of thought, and will help pull players in. I think having a couple builds (core only) at a 1000-2000 pt level of each supported army (SM, IG, Ork, Eldar) for different focii (Armor, Infantry, etc.) would be helpful to allow new players to choose a direction, while leaving enough room to differentiate as they expand.

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Postby Lordgoober » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:09 pm

That being said, I have a request for guys who are going to play the epic event at Adepticon. Guys, if you have room in your cases, bring several 2000 point armies so if we have people who don't have armies painted or want to try a different army. I know one guy who wants to play using his tyranids which aren't even built yet but doesn't expect to have them done in time.
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Postby slartibartfast » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:01 am

I agree with the ghost, if your consistant across the board and the look is somewhat close you should be able to do it. For IG at least you can fluff it saying its a different regiment. Now im not saying use 6mm Naps for tyrinids, but GHQ for Gaurd is fine. I need to see ehis army Nat. Knowing you it probably is very nice.
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