Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

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Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Frankthetank » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:26 pm

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

This seems to be the one going discussion. It seems simple enough to me. Bear with me while i try to make a example.

First example

A unit with ten bolters is firing at 30 ork boys

5 of the bolters are with in 12 inches of 6 ork boys.

the other 5 are are in range of 12 ork boys.

Shots fired from the bolters withing 12 inches can only kill the 6 orks they are in range of.

while the bolters firing at 12 ork boys can kill all of them.

so if it was me i would have my opponent roll to wounds from the rapid firing weapons first then the single shots.

If the single shots are allocated first it may very well kill the 6 orks that are in range of the double shooting marines,

Does this seem like what the rule means to you?
Gary Frank

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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Turtle » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:35 pm

nope

you roll to hit and wound as normal with everything. Then there are 2 things to remember.

1. the only orks that can be casualties are ones within line of sight of anybody. It doesn't matter who can see if a single space marine can see an ork he can be a casualty regardless of if that's the only guy he sees.

2. As to the range issue, anybody in range can be a casualty. What that means is it's a unit to unit case, not a weapon to weapon case. So you measure out 24 inches in the case of bolters, and anybody in that range is a potential casualty. It doesn't matter that some are in rapid fire and some aren't.

To clarify a bit lets say you have a lascannon in that unit too. Anybody who is 48" away from the lascannon is a potential casualty, because the lascannon extends the range of your unit out farther. It doesn't really matter that only the lascannon could reach guys in the 24-48" range. Anybody in range of your unit is a potential casualty.

Does that help?
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:39 am

I think Turtle has it spot on.
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby seahawk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:41 am

Yep, that's exactly how it works.

If there is one ork, of a mob of 10, within 24" of 5 bolter dudes, and the rest are outside 24", then with this FAQ you can only kill 1 ork. Previously, with the "Out of Range" rule, 5 orks could die.

But, as continuing the Laz example, the entire mob is in range of at least one model, so those 5 bolters can potentially mow down 5 orks again, plus the lascannon for a 6th kill.

Basically, a little bit of unseemly complication is what GW was shooting for. ;)
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Frankthetank » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:45 am

SO if I have 14 burner boys with a mek boy who has a kustom mega blasta and i fire at a unit out of a battle wagon and my burna template hits 5 guys out of a 30 man unit that is 70 hits that come out to 35 wounds would effect the 5 that i hit or would it bleed over due to me having a custom mega blasta with a range of 24 inches in the unit?
Gary Frank

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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Frankthetank » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:01 am

Seahawk,

How does the lascannon now make the range of the bolters more than 24 inches?
Gary Frank

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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby seahawk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:11 am

The magic of GW! :D

"that were not within range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made"

Any means any, including the lascannon dude. Basically, each unit has a single range band that casualties can be taken from. Remember, if you are out of range on the To Hit part, you still don't fire. Gun ranges aren't extended, the kill zone is. So:

- 5 dudes with bolters have a range band of 24", even if they are all rapid firing.
- 5 dudes with bolters and a lascannon have a range band of 48", even if they are rapid firing.
- 5 dudes with bolters and a lascannon dude who is using his bolt pistol instead have a range band of 24" because of what weapons are being used. (I think, does Turtle agree? It might be that, simply because he also has a lascannon, the band is 48" still...)


SO if I have 14 burner boys with a mek boy who has a kustom mega blasta and i fire at a unit out of a battle wagon and my burna template hits 5 guys out of a 30 man unit that is 70 hits that come out to 35 wounds would effect the 5 that i hit or would it bleed over due to me having a custom mega blasta with a range of 24 inches in the unit?
It would bleed over into the entire unit because you have the kustom-mega-blasta to make the unit have a range band/kill zone of 24", instead of just 8" of the burnas. Remember though, you have to be firing the kustom-mega-blasta for this to work, you can't just have a longer ranged weapon in the unit.

Make sense?
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Frankthetank » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:16 am

Does not make sense. I think the intenet of the rule is for wounds to be allocated by the range of the indivdual weapons fired. To use your example. The bolters at 24 inches would would only beable to wound the one ork and the lascannon would be able to wound another. Since the one ork is the only model in range of the bolters when rolling to hit. the lascannon of course would beable to hit and wound a 2nd ork
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby seahawk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:45 pm

Intent means nothing; hell, look at the poor Eldar. They can't cast powers while inside a transport anymore!

Let's go back to the FAQ:

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.
Break it down:

When making a Shooting attack against a unit
When shooting.

Wounds from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made
That model is not in range of a model with a bolter, but is in range of a lascannon. Therefore, he is within range of at least one shooting model, which means any wounds in the wound pool can be allocated to him.

Get it?


The bolters at 24 inches would would only beable to wound the one ork and the lascannon would be able to wound another.
That's not what it says, as I've shown again, above.

Since the one ork is the only model in range of the bolters when rolling to hit. the lascannon of course would beable to hit and wound a 2nd ork
It doesn't matter that only one ork is in range of the bolters; they aren't the max range of the squad. The max range of the squad is 48" because of the lascannon. You check this after you've already rolled to hit, because weapons that were out of range don't fire anyway. Since the FAQ restriction doesn't specify weapons and instead says any model, then any wounds generated from the shooting attack can be allocated to anybody within 48" of the unit. It does not matter that a bolter's range is only 24"; enemies can die that are further away, provided you have the longer ranged weapon to extend the range. Before, you didn't need the extra gun to make it happen, due to "Out of Range". Now, you do.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Frankthetank » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:25 pm

So having a weapon that as a range 48" in a unit that all the other weapons max range is 24". Effectively allows you to wound beyound the range of 24" with the the weapons whos max range is 24"? If that is the case does this make any sense to anyone of how a weapon with a max range of 24" is magically changed to 48" for wound allocation?
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby jrnach » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:26 pm

I think you are missing the fact that the FAQ states that wounds from a wound pool can't be spread to models outside of the range of every gun from that pool. Since a las cannon wound is in a different wound pool, it doesn't extend the effective range of the bolters at all.
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Frankthetank » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:31 pm

Jranch,

Was that for me or Seahawk?
Gary Frank

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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby seahawk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:43 pm

If that is the case does this make any sense to anyone of how a weapon with a max range of 24" is magically changed to 48" for wound allocation?
Read "Out of Range" on page 16. You should have been asking this question since 6th came out. ;)

@Jordan: Page 14-15 say otherwise. The Wound Pool consists of all the wounds. If they are different S or AP, they are in different groups but it's all the same Pool. Still, it doesn't matter because it distinctly says "any of the shooting models". Any is any is any of them.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby Frankthetank » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:48 pm

People reading the rule to benefit them is what i Think is happening. Wound allocation to make sense you can wound only models that are in range of the weapon that you are firing.
Gary Frank

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Re: Okay new FAQ is out someone help me on this one.

Postby seahawk » Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:09 pm

But that's not what it says.

"Out of range" allows you to wound models that are outside the range of the weapon, and the FAQ continues the tradition but makes it a little harder to do. How is that so hard to understand?
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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