Who goes first?

Debate all the finer points of our fine hobby, or just 4, 5 or 6 it...

Who goes first?

Postby CmdrVimes » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:08 pm

Which goes first, Feel-no-pain or a force weapon? Both happen after an unsaved wound. Force weapon says "immediatly," FnP does not but does that make a difference?
Len C.
CmdrVimes
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Who goes first?

Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:53 pm

FnP does not work on anything that inflicts instant death like wounds from weapons that are double your toughness or wounds from a force weapon that inflicts instant death (as long as the power was activated successfully).
Generalissimo_Fred
 
Posts: 1248
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:31 am
Location: Elgin, IL

Re: Who goes first?

Postby YeezyMozart » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:13 am

It depends on who's turn it is.

Feel No Pain: "If a unsaved wound is inflicted a model with Feel no pain can attempt a 5+save to ignore the wound caused. Feel no pain can not be used against wounds causing instant death.

Force Weapon: "If a unsaved wound is inflicted by a force weapon the wielder could make a leadership test in order to make the wound cause instant death."

*Neither of the quotes are from book, they are form memory.

6th edition rule in book: "If two abilities or special rules happen at the same time then whom ever's players turn it is can decide which rule happens first."

Therefore, since both Force Weapons and Feel No Pain occur immediately after a unsaved wound. If I charge you with Plague marines and your nice shinny Force Weapons wound me I decide that Feel No Pain happens before the activation of your force weapons and I am able to take my saves since you do not cause instant death at the moment the wound is unsaved.
I knew a man who once said, ”Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back.”

Chicago Kamikazes: http://chicagokamikazes.blogspot.com/
YeezyMozart
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:42 am

Re: Who goes first?

Postby moonshadow13 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:32 am

Question on that explanation: But its a force weapon in name and would cause "instant death" regardless of when it happens in the phase right? That being said you would therefore not get to use FNP as the weapon is an "instant death weapon" and regardless of when the instant death happens its still a instant death weapon in name and you would not get to use FNP.

I though that one was relitively easy to explain as i have been going over this FNP 5+ save thing and both discussing and reading these posts. There is a certain balance with the FNP now. You get to use it for practrically everything now Except for wounds that double your toughness (that cause instant death) and instant death weapons. The FNP save is higher, but its more universal now.

Such as on an eternal warrior. When you get hit with an instant death wound, you would not get to use FNP even though you ignore the effects of instant death. FNP cannot be used as it is still an instant death wound that you are being hit with in the first place. The phase in which it comes into effect matters not. Being a instant death weapon in name or being a double your toughness weapon nullifies any chance you can use FNP. thats what i interperate from the new ruling.
The new Tau = Death at 30"

Time to bring the Pain!!! For the greater good :)
User avatar
moonshadow13
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:07 pm
Location: Clinton, Wis.

Re: Who goes first?

Postby YeezyMozart » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:20 am

Tom,

I except your premise. However, I reject your conclusion.

I) A model that takes a wound from an instant death weapon receives no armor save or FNP.

II) If a model that suffers a wound from a force weapon, the wielder can attempt to make the wound cause instant death by passing a leadership test.

III) If a model that suffers a wound the wounded model can attempt to make a Feel No Pain Save as long as the wound does not cause instant Death.

IV) If two actions take place at the same time during the game. Whomever player turn it is can decide the order in which the events takes place.

V) Therefore, if it is my turn and my model suffers a wound from a force weapon, I can choose to use my FNP since the wound does not cause instant death at that time.

VI) Furthermore, If it is my turn and I cause a wound with my force weapon I can choose to activate it before my opponent can take a FNP in order to make the wound cause instant death.
I knew a man who once said, ”Death smiles at us all. All a man can do is smile back.”

Chicago Kamikazes: http://chicagokamikazes.blogspot.com/
YeezyMozart
 
Posts: 718
Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:42 am

Re: Who goes first?

Postby Redbeard » Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:26 am

That's pretty much the same thought train I've seen elsewhere Alan, probably correct, although it'll take getting used to.
"All very successful commanders are prima donnas and must be so treated."

George S. Patton
User avatar
Redbeard
 
Posts: 1228
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:55 am
Location: Homewood, IL

Re: Who goes first?

Postby moonshadow13 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:24 pm

I agree that it has to be "activated" to be an "instant death weapon" otherwise its just a power weapon and you would get FNP. I got distracted and forgot to ask about that part as a force weapon has to be "activated".

FNP did get nerfed changing to a 5+, but at the same time its use is much more broad in scope. Though i do play Chaos Marine Nurgle i think the new ruling clarification is good. Thanks for going over that with me. I am looking forward to Sunday's first test of new 6th Edition.
The new Tau = Death at 30"

Time to bring the Pain!!! For the greater good :)
User avatar
moonshadow13
 
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:07 pm
Location: Clinton, Wis.


Return to Rules Discussions (40K)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron