Dark Eldar rule question

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Dark Eldar rule question

Postby RAMSEY » Fri May 18, 2012 8:51 am

Here's the situation first.

An Archon and Incubi charge into cc. The Archon makes a kill that gives a token giving furious charge(FC) to the Incubi which takes place immediatly.

Here is the question. Does the Incubi get to use FC in that round of cc? It still would be the turn the assaulted. If they had gotten FHP it would work at that time, right?
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Re: Dark Eldar rule question

Postby Redbeard » Fri May 18, 2012 11:06 am

I'd say no, because they didn't have it when it was triggered.

But I've got nothing to support that position.

I can, however, create a situation that would create a paradox if it is allowed.

Suppose you've got a similar situation, where the IC is Initiative 6 and the squad is initiative 5.

So, at I6, the character swings, makes a kill, gets a token. The squad is now I6.

At I5, the squad doesn't swing, because they're I6, and so it's not their phase?

Do you repeat I6 for the squad now? But at I6, the squad didn't have Furious Charge, so they wouldn't get the +1S at I6.

There's too many contradictions possible if you play it that way.

Best to just say no, it triggers when the assault is declared, and if they get it after the trigger, they don't get the benefits.
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Re: Dark Eldar rule question

Postby Depayen » Fri May 18, 2012 11:54 am

I'm also agree with Redbeard you didn't have it prior to the assault therefore can not get it till next time you assault.
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Re: Dark Eldar rule question

Postby RAMSEY » Fri May 18, 2012 3:08 pm

Depayen wrote:I'm also agree with Redbeard you didn't have it prior to the assault therefore can not get it till next time you assault.


I agree too.

But would you say that this would also effect when they get FNP? They didn't have it before so....
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Re: Dark Eldar rule question

Postby Redbeard » Fri May 18, 2012 5:53 pm

It's not a matter of having it before the combat, it's a matter of having it when the effect is checked.

Think about it like the page on assaults:

1 Move assaulting units
1a Pick a unit
1b Declare what it is assaulting
1c Move the assaulting unit
1d Pick another unit until done

2 Defenders react
2a opponent picks a unit that was assaulted
2b opponent moves models
2c pick the next unit until done

3 Resolve combats
3a pick a combat
3b fight combat, engaged models fight in initiative order

4a Fight initiative step 10
4b fight initiative step 9
...
4j fight initiative step 1

3c determine assault results
3d loser checks morale
3e sweeping advnaces, fall backs and consolidations
3f pile ins
3g pick next combat until done.


Where does 'Unit gets +1S and +1I from furious charge get applied? We don't know for sure, but I would argue that you check this between 1c and 1d. If you successfully moved into combat, get the bonuses. That means that by the time you get to 3, the time to check this has passed.

Feel No Pain, on the other hand, is checked whenever a model takes an unsaved wound. That means that if you get Feel No Pain during step 4e, and have to check for an unsaved wound at step 4f, well, you've got it at that point. You wouldn't get to use it if you took wounds at step 4e though, because all wounds from each initiative step are resolved at the same time, so the enemy models wouldn't have died when you took your wounds, and you wouldn't have that counter yet.
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Re: Dark Eldar rule question

Postby RAMSEY » Sat May 19, 2012 7:28 am

Redbeard wrote:Where does 'Unit gets +1S and +1I from furious charge get applied? We don't know for sure, but I would argue that you check this between 1c and 1d. If you successfully moved into combat, get the bonuses. That means that by the time you get to 3, the time to check this has passed.

In the rule book it says "in the assault phase" not giving a certain order. That's where the question came up. The guy I was playing was going to use his big guy to get the point and then convey FC on the unit he had joined. After discussing it for a while we agreed he couldn't do that.


I also agree with you on the FNP. It wouldn't have mattered in the game for him that much anyway. My abbadon was in combat with the squad in question so FNP wouldn't have helped.

Thanks for the help.
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Re: Dark Eldar rule question

Postby Redbeard » Sat May 19, 2012 7:47 am

RAMSEY wrote:In the rule book it says "in the assault phase" not giving a certain order. That's where the question came up.


Yeah, this is one of GWs continuing issues with how they write rules. But even not knowing exactly when it happens, you can deduce that it has to happen before 3b, because you have to know the model's initiative at step 3b.
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