From the table edge

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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:01 pm

Redbeard wrote:I'm not chiming in, because it's not that clear to me.

I tend towards the 'yes you can', because it feels more in the spirit of having fun and less in the spirit of douchebaggery, but I don't know that the rules don't support the douchebaggery.


When it comes up in a tournament, it's all about douchebaggery. A ruling before it does would help.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby seahawk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:06 pm

Yes, they are considered "not there" until you roll for it.

However, when you roll for it and are successful, it retroactively puts the unit there the turn before.

Thus, Turn 1 they are not there.

Turn 2, you roll and are successful. Now, they were there on Turn 1, since that's what the rules say. If the opponent has models within 1", they made an illegal move and should be disqualified from the game at worst, or have the models pushed back 1" at best.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:22 pm

They cannot be there because they are blocked by the enemy. No illegal move has been made. The are available yes but cannot deploy until the enemy is no longer in range.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby Norbu the Destroyer » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:06 pm

Im fairly sure you can move on. The unit isnt truly there, its only where they theoretically start.

Here is a related situation. Say you have a lone model near a rhino door. The unit inside disembarks, and lands a few models behind the enemy that is blocking their doorway. The rules say you cant move through other units......but the unit disembarking never really was there. It disembarks and lands behind the unit. Its a wierd mechanic of a tabletop miniatures game. Its where the reality of a situation and the written rules sort of break down to a grey area that players need to resolve. I dont think the models actualy exist off the board. Infact if they cant come on they are destroyed. I would say though that they would be allowed to jump over the unit blocking the board edge though. I would rule it that way if I were TO. Playing with that line between reality and the abstract is a hard thing to enforce and using the edge of the world is a tough sell to keep jump infantry off the board- because they are within an inch even though no model is present...... tough sell if you ask me. Now if you fill the entire 12" part of the table so the Jump Infantry cant land...then fine.....but to say you cant start there........I dont think it works that way.

Now if you want to get rules layeryyyy.....I guess I would put out my tape measure and start to move. Person would say....."you can not do such a thing.....you are starting at the table edge and my models are there." I guess I would reply...."you can not have a model within 1".....but where are my models.......they arent there.....so Im not breaking any rule." So rules could be argued either way. That is where you need to be amicable and allow a little abstraction.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby seahawk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:02 pm

Exactly.

The models in Reserve are there at the board edge, whether the opponent likes it or not.

The rules FORCE the reserved models to that starting point, it's not an option, just like it forces the other player to concede the point or get DQ'd for extreme jackassery and illegal moves.

They cannot be there because they are blocked by the enemy
Exactly my point. As soon as you've rolled successfully for that reserve roll, the unit is considered to have been there the whole time, up to and including the previous turn. Thus, either the other unit cannot move within 1" of the table, or it's made an illegal move.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:45 pm

seahawk wrote:Yes, they are considered "not there" until you roll for it.


This is correct.

seahawk wrote:As soon as you've rolled successfully for that reserve roll, the unit is considered to have been there the whole time, up to and including the previous turn.


No they are not. Just the previous turn not the whole time. "As if they were there". But the reserve unit is still subject to the other rules in the game. They cannot come within 1 inch of an enemy in the movement phase. So no measuring from the table edge where they are suppose to start from. That is the reason players cover the edge to stop them from coming in.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby seahawk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:55 pm

Semantics of how I said it aside, you did just agree with me. The unit was there (the board edge) in its previous turn, you've agreed on that much. How then did the enemy unit move to within 1"?

They cannot come within 1 inch of an enemy in the movement phase.
My point exactly.

But the reserve unit is still subject to the other rules in the game. They cannot come within 1 inch of an enemy in the movement phase.
This is where you're backwards. The unit at the board edge was already there, and the "blocking" unit is the one moving to within 1"...clearly not allowed by the rules.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby Crumpsky » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:49 am

Redbeard wrote:I'm not chiming in, because it's not that clear to me.

I tend towards the 'yes you can', because it feels more in the spirit of having fun and less in the spirit of douchebaggery, but I don't know that the rules don't support the douchebaggery.


Exactly what I was thinking.
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