From the table edge

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From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:43 am

Let's say that you have some jump units in reserve. Now let's say that your opponent has his army at your table edge blocking deployment for units to walk onto the table.

Would your jump unit be able to enter the table edge by just jumping over the enemy since they ignore terrain?(and other stuff) I thought that if the enemy was next to my table edge I wouldn't be able to deploy anything because he was too close in the movement phase.(being within one inch and all)

What are your thoughts?
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Re: From the table edge

Postby Crumpsky » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:06 am

I always felt if you cant physically move the model through the other they cant get on. With the rules for jump infantry moving over things, I would say yes. They would simply just jump over the guys and land on the other side.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:28 am

It's not a doubt that they could jump over them if they were on the board already. The problem comes where they are suppose to start their movement from.

In the rule book it says " Each model's move is measured from the table edge of the battlefield, as if they had been positioned just off the board edge in the previous turn and moved as normal.".

Doesn't every model have to do this including jump infantry? Being just off the board edge just like everyone else would stop them from coming onto the board. True?

They are not available in the previous turn to set up there. So when they become avaiable they wouldn't be there if an enemy is on that edge.

If the measuring point to move the jump guys is the board edge then they can't do it because they will be within one inch of the enemy.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby Crumpsky » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:13 pm

There ya go, a rule book reference. Guess I have been playing that wrong for a little bit now.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby Turtle » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:22 pm

not true, jump infantry can move over things coming onto the board. Infantry which would have to walk on cannot move onto the board. And tanks can just tank shock on. It's pretty much only foot infantry, cavalry, and normal bikes that get piped.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:15 am

Show me in the rule book where it says "jump infantry can move over things coming onto the board". Their starting point is just like everyone else is.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby tear of the angel » Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:32 am

By what you are saying, it would also be illegal to move within an inch of the other players board edge. Due to not being able to move within an inch of your opponent.
as if they had been positioned just off the board edge in the previous turn and moved as normal.".

It kind of sounds like you got full reserved against while playing Raven guard.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:30 am

This question came up on another forum and I wanted some input from the home team. And I haven't played against Raven guard in a long time.

How would it be iilegal for the enemy to be within 1" of the board edge? Your not following. If the jump pack unit is in reserve and when becomes available is is suppose to come on from the board edge. If the enemy is already there they cannot deploy near them or just jump over them.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby seahawk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:09 am

Why can't they jump over them? "Move as normal"...moving like Jump Infantry is normal for Jump Infantry.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:36 am

seahawk wrote:Why can't they jump over them? "Move as normal"...moving like Jump Infantry is normal for Jump Infantry.


The enemy is covering the table edge. The point of measuring is from the table edge. You cannot come within 1 " of the enemy in the movement phase. So if you are measuring from the table edge you are saying that the jump squad is there ready for movement. How can you measure from there then?
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Re: From the table edge

Postby seahawk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:39 pm

Then again, if the enemy are considered as being there, the opponent can't move within 1" of the table edge to begin with, right?
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:09 pm

seahawk wrote:Then again, if the enemy are considered as being there, the opponent can't move within 1" of the table edge to begin with, right?


They can because the reserve unit still has to be rolled for.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby seahawk » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:45 pm

I disagree.

"...as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal."


So, in the previous turn, it's considered that the models are there, despite still being in reserve and not yet rolled for. Thus, the enemy models can never move within 1" of the table edge.

Basically, your position is based on such a precarious interpretation of the rules that I can't see how anybody can agree with it.


In the end, if an opponent is going to be so mega-anal about this, then simply deep strike all Jump Infantry and Skimmers. Infantry are obviously dead as normal, as are vehicles. Tanks may still Tank Shock because this move allows them to move within 1" of an enemy.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby RAMSEY » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:08 pm

seahawk wrote:I disagree.

"...as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal."


So, in the previous turn, it's considered that the models are there, despite still being in reserve and not yet rolled for. Thus, the enemy models can never move within 1" of the table edge.

Basically, your position is based on such a precarious interpretation of the rules that I can't see how anybody can agree with it.


In the end, if an opponent is going to be so mega-anal about this, then simply deep strike all Jump Infantry and Skimmers. Infantry are obviously dead as normal, as are vehicles. Tanks may still Tank Shock because this move allows them to move within 1" of an enemy.


"...as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal." That is what happens when the are available from reserve. No they are not considered there until the unit has been properly rolled for them.

It's not being anal. It's clarifing a rule. It's a point of view where someone is going to measure from the table edge "...as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal" to jump their models across enemy models so they can bring them into play instead of the waiting off edge or not come in at all.

If their models are not available to come in at that time and the enemy is already on the tables edge, they would not be able to use "...as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn and moved as normal".



I'm also really surprised more rules lawyers aren't chiming in on this one way or the other.
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Re: From the table edge

Postby Redbeard » Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:40 pm

I'm not chiming in, because it's not that clear to me.

I tend towards the 'yes you can', because it feels more in the spirit of having fun and less in the spirit of douchebaggery, but I don't know that the rules don't support the douchebaggery.
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