Necron CCbarge sweeping units in CC

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Necron CCbarge sweeping units in CC

Postby zombiejoe » Tue Mar 13, 2012 1:42 pm

Hi all,

This weekend I played my first tourament with the dudes at AWC and I want to start by saying how fun the tourny was. Good and friendly players all around. I look forward to our next event.

Onto my question...

During the tournament we needed a judge's call on a Necron issue. The Catacomb Command Barge allows the Lord riding it to make 3 sweep attacks at any enemy unit it flies over. There is nothing in the rule, the INAT, or the FAQ that states these attacks cannot be made against units in close combat. Now during the tourny the TO ruled it does not work because the rules for the attacks specify that you do not get cover and that cover only applies to shooting and since you cannot shoot in CC then you cannot make chops in CC. Now, just a quick disclaimer, I'm not complaining about the decesion rendered during the game. I thought it was a fair and sound ruling. Now, I'd like to discuss the rule in an open and time-free format.

The sweep attacks are not shooting or cc. The FAQ states the following:

Q: Does a Necron Overlord on a Catacomb Command
Barge benefit from Furious Charge on a Sweep Attack?
In addition, are Sweep Attacks close combat attacks?
(p52)
A: No to both questions


Q: Can a character on a Catacomb Command Barge
target one unit with his Sweep Attack and charge a
different unit in the subsequent Assault phase? (p52)
A: Yes.

So the first 'Q' clearly states these are not CC attacks. But, the next one states that you can sweep one unit and then assault another. And this we know, is the exact apposite rule for shooting attacks, which normally you can only assault the same unit you shot at. To me, this means the sweep attacks are not shooting nor cc and instead a special ability that the CCbarge grants. It defies normal rules. Considering all this, I'd say that Sweep attacks are allow against units in close combat. No rules about the attacks say that you cannot and it cannot be compared to any rules related to shooting or close combat attacks.

What are your interpritations to this rule?
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Re: Necron CCbarge sweeping units in CC

Postby seahawk » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:19 pm

Following your argument, I'd be inclined to agree. They are neither shooting nor close combat attacks, and in essence is "just an ability."

Abilities affect units in combat, so I don't see much wrong with it right now. Sure I'm going to go home and read by books to see if there's anything to say otherwise, but for now I'd be content with ruling that it can be used on units in close combat.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Re: Necron CCbarge sweeping units in CC

Postby Chubs » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:27 pm

I'm mobile right now, but I was thinking about this situation also.

How are Swooping Hawk grenade packs attacked worked out?

I'm pretty sure this attack is resolved in the movement phase. Just thinking of an example.
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Re: Necron CCbarge sweeping units in CC

Postby seahawk » Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:26 pm

The Swooping Hawks use a ranged weapon stat-line, making it a normal ranged weapon that follows a couple different rules.

With what the Necron ability says, it uses as many close combat bonuses as possible. However, it is clearly never stated as being a ranged or close combat attack. Even if it is eventually ruled as a close combat attack, that wouldn't prevent it from being usable in close combat. The only thing that can't be chucked into combat is a shooting attack.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Re: Necron CCbarge sweeping units in CC

Postby Lord Krungharr » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:47 pm

I also agree with the 'ability' argument. So I may have to blast those Barges with my Obliterators (or something else) sooner in the game if I should have the good fortune to play you again :)
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Re: Necron CCbarge sweeping units in CC

Postby zombiejoe » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:24 am

Amor 13, 4+ cover, and auto fix imbolized results, ignore crew shaken on a 2+ and a stuneed on a 4+; bring it on oblits!
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