Hornets nest

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Hornets nest

Postby Norbu the Destroyer » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:18 am

I promise I am not trying to start a giant rules debate here, and I dont really care about either side of the argument, but how is the "to hit" rule usually played there at the AWC and I guess that would also mean Adepticon.

When I went down to Wargamescon this summer, all the wolf players were rolling to hit with Jaws. I would assume this would also apply to bloodlance for the angels, and could mean that is how its played with the new Doomscythe for the Necrons.

Since that tournament, I have not seen Jaws played that way ANYWHERE!! I dont use wolves, but I do occasionally use Blood Angels, and I was wondering how this is ruled at the AWC events.

Again, I dont care about the debate on one side or the other, I just want to start playing this consistantly, one way or the other.

How have other folks seen this being played at venues they have gone to??
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Postby Redbeard » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:18 pm

It's the interpretation that follows the written rules. Jaws is clearly defined as a shooting attack (Pg. 37, "As a psychic shooting attack...") and psychic shooting attacks all must roll to hit (Main rulebook FAQ, Page 3, "Do Psychic Shooting Attacks need to roll to hit? Yes")

There is nothing in the Jaws power that indicates that no to-hit roll is needed. Drawing the line is simply selecting the desired targets. If the rune priest doesn't hit with the line, then nothing happens.

I can't imagine playing it any other way since the FAQ.
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Postby seahawk » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:26 pm

No I've never seen it incorrectly done this way, and it's a terrible FAQing rule. There's a debate on the B&C right now about it too.

<Read it here>

There is also <this> fun little entry to read about.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Postby Redbeard » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:48 pm

Whether the FAQ ruling is good or not is, honestly, irrelevant. The rules and FAQs tell us how things are. There are lots of bad rules and rulings, but that's how it is.

Honestly, this is another case that comes down to, can you read, or can you make up pages and pages of text to try and convince people that you're right.

The "can you read" argument is the one I presented. It's quick, it's concise, it's backed up with page references and quotes, and basically applies the simple logic that "all psychic powers roll to hit, and jaws is a psychic power".

Those who claim that Jaws doesn't need to roll to hit end up making up classifications that don't exist in the text ("Line attacks"? Really??) or writing 3000+ word blog posts. Seriously, that second link you posted uses over 3000 words in an attempt to obfuscate what is actually a very simple logic case.

As always, I think you use Occam's Razor - the simplest answer is correct. Which is simpler, the twelve word explanation or the 3000 word explanation?
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Postby seahawk » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:19 pm

The twelve word version, obviously. Sure you can roll to hit, but since the outcome is not dependent on the success of a hit, it can be ignored altogether.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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