Heroic Sacrifice against vehicles (and transports)

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Heroic Sacrifice against vehicles (and transports)

Postby seahawk » Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:55 pm

"This power can be used when the BC is removed as a casualty during either player's Assault phase.

If the Psychic test is successful, the Brotherhood Champion immediately makes a single attack against one enemy model that was in base contact when he died. If this attack hits, both models are removed as casualties with no saves of any kind allowed." (Codex: Grey Knights p.26)


One might think this will never come up with vehicles, but indeed it can; after all, it says "one model in base contact...," not "one non-vehicle model in base contact..." For simple starters, against walkers, if successful, both models go poof. That's some nice anti-walker insurance.

But what about other vehicles...same deal? Assaulting some Tau vehicles with flechettes can cause him to die. Or perhaps they assaulted a vehicle, and now another unit assaults them. BC is in contact with both, dies, and can successfully kill off the vehicle. Neat. 100 points well spent.

And here we come to transports. Let's go "silly scenario, normal game" style: Bro-Champ and crew assault a land raider that's stuffed to the gills with terminators and stun/immobilize it or something. Terminators don't get out because other unit can assault/take care of them and so it charges. If the Bro Champ dies but is successful with his Heroic Sac.(), the land raider goes poof. Do all the terminators inside go poof too? Do they get to disembark? Why/why not?

Heroic Sacrifice only says the model the Bro Champ is touching goes poof without saves, nothing about models inside the model going poof. However, models can only be forced to disembark when their transport suffers a "Destroyed" result...this isn't that, in the same way the previous codex was able to override Eternal Warrior and such with their old-style force weapons.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Postby seahawk » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:49 pm

Going by an extremely similar rule in the Space Wolf codex:

SW FAQ
"Q. If The Last Laugh removes a transport vehicle that has
models embarked, are the embarked models also lost? (p52)
A. Yes."


I'd be inclined to think his Heroic Sac. would kill the transport and all models inside. How delicious!
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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Postby Generalissimo_Fred » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:26 am

I think you are correct in your interpretation. Heroic Sacrifice can indeed remove a vehicle from play, but this situation is very hard to make happen.

H.S. only happens in the assault phase and a transport (except Ork boarding planks) won't do any damage to the Brother Champion during the assault phase. A tank shock happens during mopvemtn so that's out. Another unit shooting the Brother Champion in contact with a transport happns in the shooting phase. If the Brother Champion is in contact with the transport and is assaulted by someone else, he would need to make a 6" move, ignoring terrain, to get into base to base contact with the assaulting unit. This would take him out of contact with the transport.

The effect of the Heroic Sacrifice is to alloow the Brother Champion to kill a dreadnought in combat he would normally not be able to scratch.
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Postby seahawk » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:20 am

Yes, against normal vehicles this is difficult to make happen, but I know it can be done.

And yes, like I earlier noted it's some nice anti-walker insurance when necessary :D.
"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealously, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words, it is war, minus the shooting." - George Orwell
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